Byotrol Share Discussion Threads

[football] 27/9/2021 20:59

Pug when they did that results call DT said the borad sold there shares to II's

[pugugly] 27/9/2021 19:47

Hi- LOB - Where did you find details of Directors dumping
I can see options beign granted and then then sold - April 2021

But rns's over last 18 months show then buying buying in the market not selling -

eg:"24 September 2020 that on that same day, Nic Hellyer, CFO of the Company, purchased 129,870 ordinary shares of 0.25p each ("Ordinary Shares") at a price of 7.7p "

"on 30 January 2020, John Langlands, Non-Executive Chairman of the Company, and Nic Hellyer, Chief Financial Officer of the Company, purchased 1,000,000 and 500,000 ordinary shares of 0.25p each ("Ordinary Shares") respectively at prices between 1.79 and 1.83 pence per Ordinary Share

[loafofbread] 27/9/2021 17:19

I wish I dumped my stock at 7p like most of the BOD.

Serves me right for actually engaging with the company and listening to what they said.

[1gw] 27/9/2021 17:09

Still 3 days left to get a good IP deal into 1H. Onwards and upwards.

[football] 27/9/2021 16:38

AGM 20th October at last

[football] 27/9/2021 09:48

I'm betting that they are delaying the AGM as long as possible hoping we go into a second lockdown so then I don't have to meet shareholders.

[sikhthetech] 26/9/2021 17:30

1gw
"finnCap estimated "these royalties could rise to c. £5m+ for Actizone alone in the next 5 years"

"COULD" "NEXT 5 YEARS"
still jam tomorrow.

How many years ago did they make the Solvay agreement? Wasn't it 2018?

As predicted, where there's demand for a product, other companies adapt and enter the market, which is exactly what has happened.

End of Sept (end of H1) this week. When is the AGM?

[1gw] 25/9/2021 13:10

The other thing that I think argues against betting too big on byotrol's own Actizone sales is the Solvay agreement, under which byotrol receives royalties on Solvay's Actizone sales. You might not want to bet the company on too big a marketing campaign for hycolin 24 in the near-term if you thought there was a chance that the Solvay deal could start bringing in several million of profit before long (finnCap estimated "these royalties could rise to c. £5m+ for Actizone alone in the next 5 years").

[stevesham] 25/9/2021 12:09

Thank you 1gw

I will stand corrected and I appreciate the points you make, I value your input and will continue to watch with keen interest, if as you say all the above is being done and there is a passion, I just don't know what is keeping the share price flat/depressed, maybe it is just the market doesn't like them or understand the potential right now.

I have the same sentiment with another company that I do hold shares in where the future and potential is fantastic, they are profitable and have cash and the board are aligned with shareholders by the number of shares they own, but still the price remains flat at best

Funny old thing the market, you can't fight it, have to roll with the good and not so good

Good luck, hoping to join you soon

[1gw] 25/9/2021 10:50

Stevesham - a lot of this is happening already.

UK & Ireland hospitals are covered by the Tristel deal which is exclusive there (and non-exclusive elsewhere). Byotrol is supplying Actizone (in concentrate form) for dispensing via Tristel's Cache system. They are also developing a new product which combines Tristel's sporicidal (chlorine dioxide) chemistry with byotrol's Actizone-based long-lasting antimicrobial technology.



They also already have a European deal with Turtle Wax, which puts Actizone into Halfords (positioned as an automotive cleaning/disinfecting product) in the UK and will put it into other European Turtle Wax outlets.



They now have Hycolin 24 which appears aimed at both professional and consumer UK markets. And they still have their own-branded byotrol 4-in-1 which is (I understand) Actizone, with a reasonable positioning in professional markets - have you come across this? but I suspect byotrol 4-in-1 might be dropped in favour of Hycolin 24 branding if this product launches successfully.

They have a number of products sold through Pets At Home and according to the recent Investor Meet Company presentation, at least one of the Pets At Home products is Actizone-based.


In the US they have byotrol 24, which is not Actizone-based, but also has 24 hour claims with EPA registration. Solvay are progressing Actizone registration with the EPA and byotrol will have the option to launch an Actizone product there, I presume, once that registration is achieved, although they will no doubt consider how that would impact their existing US agreement with IRI for byotrol 24.

So personally, I don't think the board lack energy, vision or passion for Actizone, but they are limited by the resources they have available as a small company with not many employees. They also are very protective, I think, of the company's resources and given byotrol's past near-death experience before DT took over, I imagine they would think long and hard before considering taking on anything like private equity-type levels of debt to go really big and early on hycolin 24.

In terms of "not listening to shareholders" I don't think that's fair either. DT is one of the most approachable CEO's I've come across. My criticism isn't that the board doesn't listen to or isn't approachable by individual shareholders, it is that it doesn't as a matter of course communicate particularly well with retail shareholders in aggregate (through the website, RNS, frequency of presentation). I think the board has taken the view that the company ultimately will succeed or fail based on the strength of its products and its business development, and that given their limited resources they should minimise "non-core" activity. With that mindset, you can listen to retail shareholders saying they want more communication, but you still have to make a judgement call on how much resource you are willing to divert from "core" business development activity to shareholder communication.

[stevesham] 25/9/2021 09:48

In my humble opinion, this is what I believe Byotrol 24hour should do assuming that their 24 hour claims can be independently substantiated and questions answered

1. Identify what the product actually cleans, is it just protection after a clean as with some sanitisers/viricides.

2. I was always trained that you needed to clean surfaces to remove dirt before you can sanitise/disinfect

3. If it does clean, what does it clean, grease, limescale, general dirt, soap scum, body fat etc etc?

4. Can the product be added to other cleaning chemicals relevant to their application?

5. How strong is the IP/Patent and what territories, just UK, Global etc

6. Could the product be produced as a powder as an additive to cleaning/laundry tabs, and other powders?

If the answers to the above are positive, then they need to spend some serious time and effort (not so much money) talking and putting deals together with all the second tier chemical manufacturers not the P&G/Unilever although that would be nice, but I would suggest their lab teams could develop their own easily, by second tier manufacturers, I mean the likes of Selden Research Clover Chemicals Greyland McBride and others, we know about Mirius and Deb (SC Johnson) so with just these few, we could be talking about a significant pipeline of opportunity, these manufacturers not only sell into Janitorial Distributors, and some into retail, but also produce "own label" products for many brands, particularly McBride

My question is, and maybe I should ask the board, but from what I understand, they don't listen to shareholders (I am not one anyway yet) why has this already not been done, it's not difficult if the products stack up, it really isn't, and let's not mention about what is being done with Infection control in the NHS.

It's crazy, I do wonder if the board have a lack of energy, vision or passion for what should be a world leading product. It is so frustrating for me as the opportunity is massive, but not for me yet

[1gw] 25/9/2021 09:08

What would private equity do with such a product in such a situation?

[1gw] 25/9/2021 09:05

It must be a really interesting sales and marketing discussion around Hycolin 24.

On the one hand they have price pressure from the P&G and Unilever 24 hour products as those companies try to establish a position.

On the other hand they have what they believe is a superior product (robust 24 hour anti-viral protection) and they have P&G and Unilever helping to condition the market to consider residual protection products.

And they have a window of opportunity for Hycolin 24 to establish itself before Solvay's global customers launch equivalent products - on the assumption that those customers are waiting for Solvay to get its EPA registration through before launching new global products.

[stevesham] 25/9/2021 06:56

1gw

All great points, thank you, I will know a lot more about the Hycolin product over the coming weeks and months, so if anything else becomes apparent and is useful both positively (hopefully) or not so, I will post it here.

Just for info the test results, contact times and log results are checked, certainly in the professional sector by Environmental Health Officers on their routine inspections of catering establishments, and by Infection Control Nurses in Hospitals which are both massive users of this type of product.

Let's see what the coming weeks/months bring

[football] 24/9/2021 22:00

The problem is we have a management that can get us from Division 3 to the premier League but not into the champions League

[1gw] 24/9/2021 20:38

Stevesham - There's quite a bit of detail in the paper about test methods, and I guess it will mean more to you than it does to me.

There's a 10 minutes associated with the "residual" bit of the tests themselves (log 3 reduction within 10 minutes of a viral challenge) so whether the 10 minutes in the bit I quote above is referring to the initial contact time when Actizone is first applied, or 10 minutes after a viral challenge during the residual test, I'm not quite sure.

But I think the fact that Solvay are making such a big deal of Actizone means they are excited about its potential for professional as well as consumer environments.

"Unlike existing virucidal standards, both of these methods subject the disinfectant-treated surface to multiple cycles of alternating wet and dry wiping (abrasions) each interspersed with a challenge consisting of at least 3-4 log10 virus particles. In order to meet the regulatory requirements, the test surface would need to demonstrate a minimum of 3 log10 or 99.9% reduction of the final viral challenge within 10 minutes of exposure."

[1gw] 24/9/2021 20:19

Stevesham - this from the recent Solvay/Byotrol pre-print paper which is out for peer review:

"Solvay’s Actizone™ F5 long lasting disinfectant passed the UK standard BSI PAS2424 test by reducing the viral titre of Phi6 on surfaces by at least 3 logs after the surfaces underwent a series of abrasions and inoculations designed to simulate use over a 24-hour period. The viral titre was reduced by an average of 3.06 log10 after a five minute contact time, and by over 5.4 log10 (complete deactivation) after a ten minute contact time. Actizone™ F5 also passed BSI PAS 2424 when tested against vaccinia virus, showing greater than 3.5 log10 reduction and complete deactivation of the virus after a five minute contact time. "

That looks like log 5 (residual, after 24 hours) requires 10 minute contact time? And log 5 after 5 minutes against vaccinia virus (rather than the more challenging phi6)?

As I understand it, hycolin24 is byotrol's Actizone product.

[stevesham] 24/9/2021 18:37

PUGUGLY

Thank you for you comment, I so want to believe in the residual affect of any Byotrol product as this should almost be a licence to print money

I know there are residual products that remain active on the surface for a short while, but I do feel that once a surface is touched then I don't see how it can remain active, and there is also the thought that any product left on a surface in a public area rather than say a professional kitchen has the risk of causing irritation to people that are sensitive to chemicals.

I have a case of Hycolin 24hour with Byotrol Technology on my desk and it has on the reverse the CLP exclamation mark as link below, I would post the image if I could



I would also add and please correct me that Byotrol products are only tested to 99.99% where professional products really should be 99.999% so log 4 versus log 5

Don't want to get boring, but more on log counts here





Finally this document has to be checked by professional buyers and users of Hycolin 24 and form part of risk assessments, commonly known as the MSDS, this is not unique to Byotrol and any business has to have a full compliment of MSDS for each product they have on site.



Hope this helps, and I really am waiting for some positive news from Byotrol as I would build quite a position as the benefits of a 24 hour residual product even if touched would be fantastic, all sort of areas to be used, catering outlets, classrooms, visitors rooms in care homes, doctors, dentists we really should be blowing the doors off, but with the current trajectory of the share price, the lack of multiple contract wins, even direct to business or via janitorial distributors and the amount of time this has been going on, I will patiently bide my time and watch from the wings, because at this price level if they get it right, there should be some serious money to be made.

Just my thoughts, DYOR I am not invested, but would want to be if and when the story progresses further

Good luck all LTH

[1gw] 24/9/2021 18:08

The challenge to that football, is why did the shareprice fall all the way back to 6p after spiking to 10p following the Midas tip, or indeed more recently why has it fallen to the current level from the nearly 8p level following this year's April TU?

That surely is down in large part to disillusioned investors selling. They may not have picked up the phone to DT to ask what was going on, or posted something on this bulletin board, but selling your shares is a pretty good sign that you see better opportunities elsewhere.

We're not a tightly-held private company with just a handful of shareholders who DT can speak to regularly. Particularly following the Midas tip, I think we must have had a large influx of retail shareholders. How many of them are still holding? How might that have been different if the company had been able successfully to engage them in what it was doing and to keep reminding them of the prize that it was aiming for?

Ultimately, for those who are committed long-term holders and are prepared to sit on their hands (or add) during periods of share price weakness, that doesn't really matter. The same goes for management's own holdings. But I think you can argue that the company has let down those weaker holders who bought in good faith following the Midas tip or the April'21 TU, but have now sold up because the company couldn't communicate a continuing compelling vision of the future and/or because the company apparently didn't set much store by keeping all investors informed of changes to its communication plans in a timely manner.

And the cost of this to the company is surely at the very least the cost of new equity which helps to determine the opportunity set open to it. If a good but relatively large acquisition opportunity came along and the share price was still 8p, or even 10p, the company could consider it with considerably less dilution than would be necessary at 4p or 5p. That difference might be the difference between existing shareholders supporting or rejecting the acquisition case.

[football] 24/9/2021 15:56

Just remember no one ever complains to the company apart from people who posted on this message board and all the other shareholders are happy as Larry

[effortless cool] 24/9/2021 12:57

I'm getting "Byotrol -0.05p" tattooed on my forehead.

[football] 24/9/2021 11:42

I think if we had an AGM now DT might well get voted out as we're all just shareholders here on advfn venting out anger were normal shareholders just selling outAlways been told no news is good news but that all depends which end you're on