Burford Capital Share Discussion Threads

[time_traveller] 23/8/2021 10:03

We had a business update a month before the FY results too, so it just seems to be the norm for them.

[epo001] 23/8/2021 09:56

This seems quite a significant update just 3 weeks before the interim results. Managing expectations?

[time_traveller] 23/8/2021 09:51

I guess the timing was dictated by the realisation that GAAP was a looming necessity, and all that goes with it.

Hopefully the NYSE will be more pragmatic about it.

[donald pond] 23/8/2021 09:40

They are showing a constant ability to shout themselves in the foot though. You would have thought after the MW attack that they would have been more transparent and yet the remuneration news today is significant and new. I'm sure we will see lots of director buys as soon as they are able. Almost wonder if price is being manipulated down for that reason

[catsick] 23/8/2021 09:32

Seems like moving over to a more us centric reporting methodology is much more in line with what they want to do, will also help access a lot more cheaper funding and a US growth rating, also as all the other us companies do they can hide away the gaap numbers in dusty filings and promote non gaap metrics in company presentations

[syoun2] 23/8/2021 09:24

Anyone know if converting to GAAP means means quarterly updates going forward?

[lomax99] 23/8/2021 09:23

Can't quite see that happening. They need to be able to pay to attract, and retain, the best talent.

[time_traveller] 23/8/2021 09:20

I would like to know the formula for employee remuneration to better understand where the % and absolute pay level is headed in future.

[tradertrev] 23/8/2021 09:00

The new disclosure on carry percentages paid to staff and in particular the trend therein is particularly disappointing, as it represents a significant dilution to shareholders' economic interest in the company. We need to know the end-point of this trend and understand why it is has been necessary to keep increasing this percentage.
Not remotely surprised by the fall in share price this morning given this new information.

[lomax99] 23/8/2021 08:43

Yes, 'against a large, financially strong multinational'Good news.

[williamcooper104] 23/8/2021 08:26

It seems to be mostly on one anti-trust case

[houseofpain1] 23/8/2021 08:23

A quiet six months which is disappointing on a short-term view but this will happen from time to time and Covid has obviously impacted. But for those with a longer-term view, the more important metrics are returns (rose slightly) and commitments and deployments (up substantially to record levels bearing out previous commentary re Covid leading to increased litigation volumes/demand for funding). Balance sheet rock solid with $430m of liquidity as at 30 June plus a further $103m post period end.

Additional noise of transition to GAAP unhelpful but the attendant accounting accruals are genuine one-offs.

So longer-term case unchanged, but clearly the shares likely to be weaker near term as this will shake out weaker holders who want profits today!

[1aconic] 23/8/2021 08:23

Am I reading that right? Two hundred and seventy seven million (277m) committed and DEPLOYED to a new investment?? That's mammouth, especially given that it's deployed as well as committed (although I'm baffled how such a large sum could be deployed in full quite so quickly). Surely there has to be a decimal point that my tired eyes are missing?

[lomax99] 23/8/2021 08:18

Perhaps worth a re-post for anyone who has not seen it:Https://traviswiedower.com/

[williamcooper104] 23/8/2021 08:18

When asked why they didn't account for the carry provisions earlier Bur will probably hide behind 1 - our accountants signed it off - yes - but auditors do not prepare accounts, Bur does that 2 - their accounts are riddled with non-GAAP performance metrics; absolutely nothing would have stopped Bur from reporting the amounts that would be payable on a realisation in carry. 3 - why didn't they just make this adjustment or if not adjusted then at least disclosed it when the s hit the fan and the share price was tanked post MW - perfect kitchen sink opportunity Dishonesty and incompetence never a good look

[lomax99] 23/8/2021 08:09

Good that they have up-dated the provisioning, also good that bonuses are tied to cash realisations, if they do not materialise related provisions will be released.Hope they have to pay that full YPF provision!

[williamcooper104] 23/8/2021 08:06

They should also state all of their ROIC/IRRs on a pre and post carry basis - just as every PE fund does

[riverman77] 23/8/2021 08:01

Got out first thing this morning, surprised only off 2.5%

[kaos3] 23/8/2021 07:58

wow

We set out below the percentage of realized gains in each vintage that has been awarded as carry.


Vintage year % of realized gains awarded
2015 4
----------------------------
2016 4
----------------------------
2017 4
----------------------------
2018 6
----------------------------
2019 6
----------------------------
2020 8
----------------------------
2021 9

and declaring a loss at the same time and paying salaries for their work. is that the definition of greed? probably there is something different in the wiki as the definition of the greed

[williamcooper104] 23/8/2021 07:57

Irritating $70m loss, $20m profit excluding P&L carry charges The Peterson mark didn't include the carry bonus payable to staff on a Peterson realisation Good that they are only paying carry on cash realised - but really not good that they didn't accrue for that on the balance sheet carrying value - means the previously reported carrying value was simply wrong

[kaos3] 23/8/2021 07:56

wow

We set out below the percentage of realized gains in each vintage that has been awarded as carry.


Vintage year % of realized gains awarded
2015 4
----------------------------
2016 4
----------------------------
2017 4
----------------------------
2018 6
----------------------------
2019 6
----------------------------
2020 8
----------------------------
2021 9

[rar100] 20/8/2021 19:39

Isn't it the case that there is simply not enough people buying the shares and the reason for that is it's an esoteric niche market in the general market place that's not understood by 'the masses' and not helped by the legal constraints in giving out 'good news' like most companies do. And those potential new investors can be put off by the share price chart firstly and then the reasons behind the crash. Dodgy accounting is about the worst thing to put off a potential punt, the shame is that any company can be attacked that way and although MW was proved to be wrong/deceitful/slanderous etc. it still leaves a stain.
The only way that will change is good results and good press coverage (which is just starting)but needs the positive sentiments shown to BUR pre the MW fiasco, i.e. that the new asset class is the very best thing since sliced bread.
I hope for both Sept.9th and then £20 forthwith. GLA

[lazg] 20/8/2021 13:17

William,

I totally agree with you that anyone buying the assets would want an upside. And - of course - I lack the information required for a due diligence on a case by case basis.

My main point here is that, currently, the book value of Burford is (mostly) calculated as the costs of the case. I think that this is just a bad metric when estimating book value for lit fin.

All I really believe is that a 2 billion market cap is far too low. This is a cash cow and its a growing cow, so I will be milking it.

I think there is significant upside to the share price I really enjoyed Travis' article when I first read it. Well researched and written. Even he thinks his estimate is conservative.

I am looking forward to the next update.

[three black crows] 20/8/2021 11:57

Laz G and W. Cooper,
Saw this on the other board, looks a lot more realistic to me,
Burford valuation according to Travis Wiedower at :
hxxps://traviswiedower.com/
you can read the full article on his web page but he
refers to Burfords Share Price Valuation, with particular refernce to Peterson.
He believes Burfords Petersen case if won is worth (on its own)between $5 - $15.
If this were added to the current share price we would be looking at $17- $27.