Burford Capital Share Discussion Threads

[loglorry1] 03/8/2021 11:07

"Total share price performance since IPO is about 20 IRR"

I think you mean share price has risen on average by 20% per year since IPO?

It was 108p on October 2009 (IPO?) now 769p. Over 12 years that's an IRR of 17.68%.

Certainly not bad at all.

I'm invested and happy to hold but it's a very hard beast to value properly because of the lumpy returns so the market focuses on NAV rather than earnings multiples.

[williamcooper104] 03/8/2021 10:51

Total share price performance since IPO is about 20 IRR Return on NAV ought to be about the same (will see at next balance sheet date) That's particularly attractive given the downside protection at IPO - if it had all gone wrong (as it did with Juridica) you'd have been very unlucky to have lost more than 10-20 percent and thus it was more akin to a fixed income risk profile (and I sold down my sub-investment grade credit to invest in Bur for that reason) Recent step up in deployment with zero signs of underwriting standards slipping suggests higher near term returns

[loglorry1] 03/8/2021 10:24

Thanks for a few numbera there.

I'm not sure how you get the 50% CAGR from? Growth of what?

"concluded ROIC of 92% since 2009"

Sounds quite good but in some ways it's a bit meh. 92% over 11 years is only 6% a year.

[djderry] 02/8/2021 21:51

Thank you for your contribution Kirkie001.The poster,in response to my post outlining in detail my view of the attractiveness of the asset class and,in particular,Burford's advantages as the leading finance company and my opinion that the company is materially mispriced and underrated requested 'numbers'.
I have asked for clarification.In the meantime I have provided a selection of 'numbers'.I have also asked a question.If one is sceptical and is not comfortable investing in a particular company,would it not be more sensible to go and do some research and find an investment that fulfills one's requirements?
Your view of the tone of my post is noted.

[kirkie001] 02/8/2021 20:03

djderry - is there really any need for that kind of snippy answer? log lorry asked some pretty reasonable questions as he's looking for information....

[djderry] 02/8/2021 19:09

Dear loglorry1,
Thank you for your response.You say you need numbers.Perhaps you could be a little more specific.Which numbers?
Income?Profit?EPS?Profit after tax? Deployments?Realised gains? Fair value gains?
Let me give you a general overview;
Half a billion in group wide income,( over a billion in cash receipts)concluded ROIC of 92% since 2009,CAGR of more than 50% for the last five years,funds generating growing performance fees,operating profit of 248.9 million dollars,profit after tax of 171.698 million dollars,total income ( Bur balance sheet only) 356.973 million,operating expenses 86.589 million,net unrealised gains 143 million dollars ( across 41 different assets).
I could go on.
And tell you the per centage of cases that settle in the company's favour.
Or,the percentage of cases that go on and are won by the clients of Burford.
Or the ROIC on cases that go to trial compared to those that settle.
But I won't.
It's all publically available.
Oh,by the way,I also have a question.
Why not go and find a company you are happy to invest in?

[williamcooper104] 02/8/2021 10:45

Note that it was published 6 weeks ago - so not likely to be moving the share price at moment

[williamcooper104] 02/8/2021 10:44

All sorts of nasty stuff there; max 40 percent of share of receipts to the litigation funder Fiduciary duties from funder to claimant Removing ability of litigation funder to in any way control the actions of the claimant, including threatening to remove funding

[williamcooper104] 02/8/2021 10:36

Presumably would only apply to claims brought through the European courts On the plus side could open up new state level European markets; and would appear to helpfully enshrine the right to have litfin

[lomax99] 02/8/2021 10:21

Doesn't sound great, any chance of this getting through, or catching on?

[gusrezo] 02/8/2021 09:40

the European Union is drafting a directive to regulate the litigation funding market.
You can read the proposal in the following link:

DRAFT REPORT with recommendations to the Commission on Responsible private funding of litigation
17-06-2021

For example, it's proposed to limit the percentage of the claim that the funder can receive.

[riverman77] 31/7/2021 11:45

There same article seems also to be on the California Times which appears to have no paywall

hxxps://californianewstimes.com/can-this-us-healthcare-litigation-company-really-be-worth-33bn/443354/

[scubadiverr] 31/7/2021 10:19

If you Google or bing the headline you can gain free access to the whole article. Works with the IC too. Teach a man to fish...

[loglorry1] 31/7/2021 09:02

Where do you see "all this money pouring in" ? It could be the case but you seem to be guessing at the moment.

[williamcooper104] 30/7/2021 23:19

Sorry; don't want to breach copyright by cut n pasting whole article especially as they give out gift links regularly

[donald pond] 30/7/2021 23:00

I'd say there is little chance of that while there are still so many opportunities to deploy capital. If Petersen ended with a big cash payout then the board might have a decision to make in that regard though.

[tnt99] 30/7/2021 19:33

Could be a special dividend in the offing with all the money that is pouring in

[lazg] 30/7/2021 07:54

William, could you plase post the article here?

[williamcooper104] 29/7/2021 22:51

From memory it's something like a 30 percent carry over an 8 percent hurdle (typical PE is 20 over 8) Fantastic one way leverage

[lomax99] 29/7/2021 17:05

Yes, and hopefully the AUM fees will start to get exciting once waterfall returns really start to kick in.

[riverman77] 29/7/2021 16:49

Interesting snippet from the article on MSP Recovery and its $33bn valuation.

"MSP Recovery contended that its valuation was in line with private equity giants such as Blackstone, KKR and Apollo, which it considered peers because of the long-term nature of their investments."

Obviously an absurd comment given that MSP will have a fraction of the AUM of KKR and the others mentioned there, but perhaps this is the way to drive a re-rating - highlight the qualities of the asset management side (long term revenues and very high fees). At least Burford have a large and rapidly growing asset management side with strong track record, which perhaps one day could be a sort of litigation funding version of KKR.

[williamcooper104] 29/7/2021 16:13

I think you'll be able to short it once it de-spacs (but Nikola still has a market valuation of $15 odd billion)