Aviva Share Discussion Threads

[dr biotech] 20/5/2020 16:48

From the ft: Whole article is here



Aviva and QBE have become the latest insurers to be targeted by customers angry about their refusal to pay claims on business interruption policies.

Hospitality Insurance Group Action, which is working with bars and restaurants that face ruin because of the pandemic, plans to focus on the two companies after its lawyers said the wording of their policies offered the best chance of success.

It is now looking for litigation funding to help pay for legal action.


Law firm Mishcon de Reya, acting on behalf of HIGA, reviewed 500 policies...
Aviva’s policies, she said, could be triggered by the “actions or advice of governmental authority”. Pubs and restaurants argue that they were forced to close by the government, so their claims should be paid.


Aviva said its “standard terms and conditions for business interruption do not cover claims relating to the current pandemic. However, a small number of Aviva customers may have purchased cover through a broker or scheme that is not on Aviva’s standard terms and which may provide cover.”

HIGA plans to gather as many Aviva and QBE policyholders as possible before launching a class action against the two.

Almost a dozen action groups have been set up to push for the payment of business interruption claims, many of them targeting specific insurers...

The UK’s Financial Conduct Authority plans to launch a test case in the High Court in an effort to provide some clarity for insurers and their customers. The case is likely to be heard in July.

[igoe104] 20/5/2020 16:11

George Culmer cant do any worse than Montague anyway.

[wba1] 20/5/2020 16:08

ianood; I am pleased to hear that Culmer was well regarded when at Lloyds. I must admit to being predisposed to opposing him because of the RSA background. For information; Culmer was Group CFO (and possibly COO) at RSA until early 2012. In 2013 RSA disclosed a reserve hole in its Irish subsidiary which required a £200m injection from the parent and resulted in the resignation (read dismissal) of the Irish CEO Philip Smith and the Group CEO Simon Lee. Others also went. The size of the hole (relative to the Irish operation) was so huge it could only have been built over a number of years. It was also on such a scale that any semi-competent accountant or actuary should have spotted it long before it became public. In fact, when Philip Smith pursued RSA in court for unfair dismissal, a central plank of his case was that it was well known by Group management and had been discussed with them. He won the case, was awarded over a million euros at the initial hearing, and RSA were forced to settle with him.

As Group CFO George Culmer would have been responsible for having in place the processes and oversight to identify such issues early - across all Group companies. Either they were inadequate (or non-existent), or Smith was telling the truth that the Group directors knew what was going on and chose to hide it, despite it being more than sufficiently material to require notifying the market at the earliest possible opportunity. Culmer escaped blame and interrogation because he left a year before it became public, but for a hole on that scale the fault must have stretched back many years.

No one gets everything right all the time, but some failures should be existential in terms of a career - and to my mind this is such a case.

[jomac2412] 20/5/2020 15:45

The below is from Stockopedia , looks more like a Update Call ? Is it only for Analysts ?


Aviva PLC Q1 Market Update Call
Scheduled: 21 May 2020 at 10:01 to 11:01

[paulof2] 20/5/2020 15:05

Just to confirm no one knows what this alleged update is tomorrow nor if it’s actually going to happen? Still can’t see anything on the website for it.

[dr biotech] 20/5/2020 14:49

Actually - as well put at your points were, I see it a different way.

Whilst I'm not particularly vigorous about enforcing my own rules I like to consider myself an ethical investor - I won't invest directly in companies that make arms or tabacco or are primarily gambling or environmental unfriendly. I realise I have some trackers that are in these and I'm comfortable with that. I am more likely to invest in companies that do more than they have to when it comes to communities and donating the Red Cross in my mind is good PR and its something I liked to see. It may lead to more business.

If it was a political donation, particularly where it could easily hack people off (ie either side of brexit) then I would agree.

There are other issues - Aviva sponsored Norwich City (now ending) and also bought the naming rights for the main sports stadium in Ireland. I'd guess these cost more than the donation to the Red Cross and I'm not sure of the payback. But we have to allow some leeway into what the customer thinks is value in PR and also to be part of the community.





As a former mutual society Aviva may have also have a constitutional agreement to give to good causes.

[eurofox] 20/5/2020 14:42

Did you go long instead of short?

[eurofox] 20/5/2020 14:35

profitable day!

[igoe104] 20/5/2020 14:01

Your not going to believe this gents - my question has made the short list. I've just had a email from Aviva asking if I can give them consent to read my name / question out at the upcoming AGM.

[boystown] 20/5/2020 13:36

Thanks for the kind comments everyone on post 2902. Hopefully some of this kind of feeling can filter through at the AGM, to "UK plc" in general and to gov't policy makers - though as a PI, I'm well used to being vilified and cynical.

[solarno lopez] 20/5/2020 12:48

Aviva joins string of insurers under attack in Covid-19 BI dispute

from Insurance Age

[ianood] 20/5/2020 12:02

wba1, I cannot speak about the RSA situation as I have no knowledge of it. However, I did attended several presentations of GC's post the Lloyds 2007/8 debacle and after Win Bischoff took control. Culmer received a grueling time at the hands of some of the City's most competent credit analysts. He handled himself well, didn't tolerate fools and always exhibited total familiarity with all of the Lloyds Group numbers, even to questions where you would have expected the usual "I'll get back to you on that one". He worked competently as a double act with Horto Osario and was instrumental in extracting LLoyds from the Govt's clutches asap. Personally, from that experience I think he was a very accomplished CFO and will/should apply his tenacity to sorting AV out in short order.

[eurofox] 20/5/2020 11:59

could you short this down a bit more like you have some conviction?

[linton5] 20/5/2020 11:18

Totally boyston well put 👍❤5039;

[spcecks] 20/5/2020 11:16

Boyston I think you summed it up very well how we all feel in your excellent post 2902.

[paulof2] 20/5/2020 11:07

Brilliant post Boystown.

[eurofox] 20/5/2020 10:52

excellent trading day again

[wba1] 20/5/2020 10:15

A few weeks back there was an exchange on this site about possible replacements for Tulloch (not that he will go without a major investor attack). Culmer was suggested as CEO at that time. In reply I pointed out that Culmer was the CFO of RSA at the time the Irish subsidiary was building and hiding a huge black hole which came close to costing RSA their independence (he got out a few months before the hole was found and the RSA board was decimated by dismissals).

Does anyone here think that Culmer is a suitable replacement chair given his background of both the RSA debacle and being part of the board (the senior NED) who were too weak to stand up to Tulloch last year when they supported a split of the company and Tulloch wanted (and got) that kicked out?

I retain my belief (and my shares) in the value offered by Aviva, but the repeated appointment of mediocrities, the failure of communication and the 'good ol' boy' insider mentality at the top of the company is the biggest factor delaying the market recognition of that value.

(And just to clarify a previous post. I said Canadian $500m for the dental scheme hit, but specified gross. I agree the net figure will be much lower due to reinsurance recoveries - something you would expect the company to clarify since we are only aware of the reinsurance on pandemic due to cjac's good work, and the press coverage has focused on the gross).

[mister md] 20/5/2020 09:10

added at 233p

[eurofox] 20/5/2020 09:00

added at 232

[eurofox] 20/5/2020 08:44

added at 232.8

[mister md] 20/5/2020 08:40

Boystown - excellent post 2902.

Note that in some European countries there is already a wealth tax system whereby its assumed you make 6% gain on investments per year and are taxed accordingly, even if the market has dropped by 20% !

Aviva is already one of my largest holdings, but I'm so tempted to buy more as I can't see any (seemingly) better valued FTSE stocks out there

[boystown] 20/5/2020 08:29

Mine are in a nominee account and, anyway, I fear a waffley answer that I could probably draft myself.

Nevertheless, if any holders want to use any part of my post 2902 above (which seems to resonate judging by the thumbs up numbers) to pose a question then please feel free.

[igoe104] 20/5/2020 08:17

Anybody want to forward a question for the up-coming AGM -

[e-mail]

You need to forward your (Shareholder reference number) with your question.

[igoe104] 20/5/2020 08:06

Good point about the red cross, boystown- why don't all senior management and directors give 20% of their own salary to the red cross - if its that close to their own hearts. It easy giving away others folks money to charity, rather than your own.