Amte Power Share Discussion Threads

[1savvyinvestor] 21/3/2021 23:04

Listened to the long interview again and still impressed and excited . Teesside and Dundee for giant factories- potential is enormous. £2.5 million revenue totally irrelevant

[74tom] 21/3/2021 22:54

You are clearly exceptionally stupid, on many many levels. Not even worth trying to debate with such an obvious troll. Get in the bin :)

[hydrus] 21/3/2021 22:50

Someuwin I agree about sodium - sounds potentially transformational.

[hydrus] 21/3/2021 22:49

Thanks MRF. I have no way of knowing about the specific technical point you make but I get you are not convinced ;) I guess the proof is in the pudding and I'm happy to wait to see if they contract with one of the nine companies they are working with. I would imagine they must be on to something or else JLR, Williams, Cosworth etc just wouldn't be at all interested.

[my retirement fund] 21/3/2021 22:14

Sorry got cut short family matters. 35C not a selling point for mass produced large battery packs upto and exceeding 100kwh. If this company actually had any novel technology, you would know about it. For starters it wouldn't be on aim, it would have billions of pe seed money and pe investors crawling all over it long before it was even floated and even if you were not very knowledgeable, you would probably already either know about it or have heard about it. I tell you what. I've done this a few times in the past. I'll do it again now. Here goes: In ten years time, investors will be left with nothing, your share bought today will effectively be worthless.

[someuwin] 21/3/2021 21:55

I think AMTE's Sodium based batteries (rather than Litium) offer the greatest potential...

"The biggest thing going for sodium batteries is their use of abundant, cheap, and benign materials. There is over one-thousand times more sodium than lithium in the Earth’s crust. It also costs less to extract and purify. Moreover, sodium metal oxide cathodes typically used in batteries—the anodes are carbon just like lithium-ion batteries—can be made from plentiful metals such as iron and manganese. Lithium-ion cathodes, by contrast, use cobalt, a metal with limited geological reserves and an iffy supply chain centered on a handful of countries. And other batteries such as lead-acid and nickel-cadmium contain toxic metals. “The main attraction of sodium is sustainability,” Abraham says.

Sodium batteries are also more stable and safe than lithium-ion. They have a wider temperature range, are nonflammable, and there is no thermal runaway—which can cause lithium-ion batteries to catch fire—under any condition, says Pouchet."



From AMTE's Admiossion Doc...

"Energy storage system cell market

Within the energy storage system (“ESS”) market, in the Directors’ opinion, one of the greatest challenges is that lithium-ion cells can be either unstable at high temperatures, and within the home environment are increasingly perceived as a fire risk, or can have reduced performance, thereby creating an opportunity for a cell based on a new chemistry. In addition, this is a highly cost sensitive market where there is strong potential demand for a lower priced alternative.

ESS markets represent between 8 per cent. to 16 per cent. of total annual demand from 2020 to 2030, with demand for ESS batteries forecast to grow at 21 per cent. per annum from 23GWh per annum in 2020 to 155GWh per annum in 2030 (source: Bloomberg NEF 2019).

The Company’s differentiated product for the ESS cell market is Ultra Safe. Ultra Safe is being designed as a safe and cost-effective re-chargeable pouch format battery cell to address key applications in energy storage systems, whether microgrids (self-sufficient energy systems serving discrete geographic
locations) or larger systems.

Ultra Safe is based chemically on sodium, an element which is more readily available, and at a significantly lower price, than lithium. In the ESS market, sodium-ion also has a safer thermal structure than lithium-ion and has the ability to operate in a broader temperature range. The Directors understand
18that the United Nations has commenced its process to re-classify sodium-ion as a non-hazardous good for transportation purposes.

The Ultra Safe release date is expected in the third quarter of 2022, with early prototypes available later in 2021. The Board considers that Ultra Safe, while at an earlier stage than the other differentiated cells, has the greatest opportunity to be a transformational product, given its substantial potential advantages over lithium-ion as a storage medium, in terms of safety and cost."

[flashheart] 21/3/2021 21:27

Filtered but seems to be trying hard. Funny seeing they don't hold any shares but selfishly continue to try and save us from ourselves.

[my retirement fund] 21/3/2021 20:17

>35C is pointless, you just use capacitors. As I said, they have memorandums of understanding and intent from everyman and his dog including probable

[74tom] 20/3/2021 23:10

Ps. A contrarian opinion is fine, but not when they call current holders muppets...

[74tom] 20/3/2021 23:08

My retirement fund, your comments are cynical, negative and smack of jealousy. Ever thought that the reason they have ‘grabbed plenty of cash’ is due to the quality of their reputation & forthcoming products? And if they wanted to feather their own nests then why did the CEO & CTO only sell 5% of their shares in the IPO? Carl Maine (the largest shareholder) who appears to be the original seed VC who invested in 2015 didn’t sell a single share?

Both AMTE & British Volt are following the same model as Swedish based Northvolt which was founded in 2016;

Just 3 years ago Northvolt released the following;

“February 2018
Northvolt's Battery Systems team completes development of its first battery module prototype.”

5 days ago they signed a €14b deal with VW...



So both yours & Tonsils comments are nothing more than negative speculation.

There is no good reason why AMTE + British Volt can’t achieve the same for the UK EV industry well ahead of the 2030 deadline.

The whole purpose of having national / regional champions is to reduce supply chain reliance on China or the EU for EV batteries.

[1savvyinvestor] 20/3/2021 23:06

https://www.globaltrademag.com/global-manufacturing-supply-chains-in-the-spotlight/

[the stigologist] 20/3/2021 22:58

I welcome MRF contribution

I have been in EV industry losers several times over a period of over 20 years (including likes of Smith Electric Vehicles (Tanfield TAN) and Axeon (AXE)) so a contrarian opinion is always worth listening to

I do feel we are at a particular inflection point/tipping point and the UK Government will have to invest a lot of money to play catch up to build National Champions this late in the game

------------------

The sad AXE story

[hydrus] 20/3/2021 22:38

PS I'm under no pretence that this is a much riskier proposition than my normal stocks but in my view there is no question that there will be a market growing exponentially partly because governments are legislating against petroleum - so a strange situation whereby consumers will be forced into buying EVs (some will want to of course). Clearly with a market growing exponentially then the demand for batteries for the next decade or two will be huge it is going to be a bit of an open goal for competent designers/manufacturers. Demand will outstrip supply and picking a niche like AMTE have likely means less competition anyway. So the question then becomes whether AMTE are competent - the CEO (an engineer) seems competent to me so I guess that is what I am betting on.

[hydrus] 20/3/2021 22:20

Thanks MRF. I understand they are pre-sales but they seem to have prototypes being tested by major car manufacturers (JLR and others) and their first product is due to be launched in Q4. Clearly the fact they don't have lots of sales to date makes them riskier but therein also lies the opportunity. I would expect orders soon enough. I listened to an interview between the CEO and what seemed to be a techie (as opposed to say a finance bod) and I was pretty impressed. I'm always attracted to founder led businesses. Do you have a negative view on their high-power product? They have others in development but this one is first to be launched.

'The Ultra High-Power product has been developed with the automotive industry. The key property of this cell is its ability to deliver power at a very high rate (>35C), consistently and without fault. The Ultra High-Power cell range is designed for high-performance hybrid vehicles and is now being included in a number of key automotive and motorsport programmes. The product release date is due Q4-2021, with prototypes available now.'

[tonsil] 20/3/2021 19:56

I asked on another thread re amte @tonsil - who today would list and not claim to be innovative? In the past, this would get a market cap of the sum of its grants, as it has next to no commercial sales (£2.5 M since inception). Yet, here we are with a market cap well over £100 M for something that may never see £100 M of commercial sales in its entire lifetime.Making batteries in the lab and making them on an industrial scale to the same specs is no small feat. It is not a high margin business and is fraught with chemistry difficulties - especially the operation at high temperature - that remain unclear how they will overcome them.Just stating a timeline for performance and operational lifetime doesn't make it so, just tack on the disclaimer from early development studies and it is fine.The energy sector is littered with vastly over-valued start-ups. This is just another in a long chain of them. However, the sector are market darlings so maybe the share price will increase. I'm not touching any of these things with a barge-pole because i don't buy any of the hype.

[my retirement fund] 20/3/2021 19:30

I'm an electronics engineer career wise Hydrus with a degree in environmental science and run a business that manufacturers and designs lithium batteries for bespoke applications. To address your second question, I can't see any at all. They have a scale of operation, but that different to a scale of say manufacture or production or even sales, very different indeed. They've managed to grab plenty of cash, both public and private to feather their nests and clearly have the contacts to keep doing so for a while yet. I've yet to see any tangible product let alone viable business income. As I say, its created a lot of noise, its even attracted a memorandum of understanding from some saudi backed outfit calling themselves British volt which seems a scam fishing for public money to create a supposed venture. There's a few sprung up in the last year, there's one in gas Street Birmingham I noticed recently. It's desperate times, the British Government have missed the boat on the big fish in the motor trade, by failing to create a stable economic and political climate in the last decade or so, these have all committed investment to research and huge factories across Europe and Asia now, so I guess there's money to be had if you have the right connections whilst the lights burn brightly. Was there anything you actually wanted to know that could help your understanding? I have plenty of, and access to most peer reviewed research in this sector.

[volsung] 20/3/2021 18:18

One does admire this company so. Plucky little thing isn’t it? Ha. Come now, I know you lot admire it too. Don’t be shy. One must be clear and precise about one’s desires if one is to stand any chance at all of fulfilling them.

[hydrus] 20/3/2021 17:48

Ok - it would be good to understand what you mean by being 'in the industry' because that could mean any number of different things. So my first question is what is your expertise and experience? Second question - what is your understanding of AMTE's advantages/disadvantages vs peers?

[my retirement fund] 20/3/2021 17:12

What would you like to know about the manufacturer and the market for lithium batteries Hydrus? Feel free to ask !

[jumi456] 20/3/2021 12:31

Our production and volume manufacturing facility will come sooner than you thinkhttps://www.manufacturingmanagement.co.uk/features/taking-the-next-steps-to-large-scale-battery-manufacture

[flashheart] 20/3/2021 10:37

Blow up dolls or crystal meths but it certainly isn't the energy sector lol. Yep just another tool who thinks he's missed the boat. Sad really.

[charliebennett] 19/3/2021 23:02

He's in the industry of talking complete rubbish. Probably just salty he couldn't get in on the float

[tonsil] 19/3/2021 22:36

Polaris on the Tesla thread is a battery researcher. I'll ask him to comment.