Air Partner Share Discussion Threads

[vegas76] 09/5/2019 08:10

Have they missed it?

[pulsey] 09/5/2019 07:57

Supposedly according to their RNS last week.

[psync] 09/5/2019 07:54

Results day, isn't it?

[valhamos] 08/5/2019 10:55

Well it didn't happen at Pat Val, or I suspect at Tesco or Carillion or if it did it was not effective. The problem is they are not reporting to the shareholders. We as shareholders rely on external auditors to do their job which is checking that management are doing theirs in financial reporting and the internal controls necessary to have confidence in these reports. It really is quite simple you cannot trust a balance sheet if the CFO has not ensured the balances are substantiated. Any decent audit would uncover that failing.

[trident5] 08/5/2019 10:11

Yes it does happen. A lot.

A lot of internal audit departments have disappeared in recent years as companies realise it's a lot more efficient to address matters that need an internal audit by simply contracting it out as and when needed.

The external auditors' job is to ensure that the accounts give a true and fair view and that the company is a going concern - checking internal controls is a subset of that process. If you want it done thoroughly you do it as a specific project and you don't have to do it every year.

I've worked in internal and external audit and been subject to many of both types of audit. External audits do look at internal controls but they've got a lot of other stuff to work on as well and they also use junior staff - the quality of these audits has declined over the years.

An occasional audit focussed just on the controls should (i) ensure they are appropriate and working properly and (ii) ensure an environment where standards are high: internal audits can be scary for those subject to them.

[valhamos] 08/5/2019 10:02

It may be easy but does it happen? I don't thinks so. Why have an external party every 2 or 3 years when we are paying for one every year? The auditors' job is to check internal controls. If controls are not there then it is very hard for them to reach an unqualified opinion.

[trident5] 08/5/2019 09:24

Oh that's easy. The audit committee just request an internal audit of the controls every 2 or 3 years, conducted by an external party.

You don't need an internal audit department to have an internal audit function.

And, perhaps as importantly, any miscreants in a finance function are likely to behave better and raise their standards with that dangling over their heads.

You'll get a much better check of the internal controls with that than you would with the annual audit of the accounts.

[valhamos] 08/5/2019 08:49

But how do you know what all these people are doing? You have an audit! That gives, or should give, assurance. Human nature is what it is. Otherwise we could just rely on these people and not need an audit. The auditors are checking the internal controls and in fact without an internal audit department it requires a brave audit committee chairman to confront the CFO and turn up and examine the balance sheet reconciliations!

[trident5] 08/5/2019 08:16

Valhamos - fair point; but what were the directors doing? The NEDs? The audit committee?

It's not unreasonable to have a swipe at the auditors - but sometimes we lose sight of the fact that they are only being accused of failing to pick up management's shortcomings.

[valhamos] 08/5/2019 07:44

It is not a question of AP taking any credit. Everyone is agreed that the controls should have been in place - that's why the previous CFO has gone. It is a question of auditors doing the job that they are supposed to. If the controls were not in place - if balance sheet substantiation was not taking place why were the auditors not reporting that?

[venek] 07/5/2019 22:10

I also have been reminded that in last year's annual report there was a statement about unifying the consulting and training businesses under one brand. So far nothing has happened on that.

Another failure to delivery? Or perhaps it will be unveiled in this week's report as a distraction for the gullible from the underlying weaknesses in management and performance of that division.

Air Partner Consulting Limited does exist as a possible vehicle for that but only if the brand of whats basically a charter broker with a history of financial compliance problems is actually a marketable brand in other sectors (which Briffa seems to think). Or will the largest part of that division, Baines Simmonds, swallow up the the smaller businesses, with their no doubt unique cultures, and trigger an even greater departure of talent (as BS are already failing to hold their own [employees] and making up with zero hour contract juniors)?

[venek] 07/5/2019 22:01

"You would expect a decent audit team to discover journals processed without review for material items, or unreconciled balance sheet accounts."

welshdaff however makes the point that: "Undetected accounting failures appear to fall into two broad categories – 1) rogue insiders taking calculated steps to circumvent existing governance procedures for gain or otherwise (often limited to brief periods) and 2) intentional falsification going unnoticed because detection controls never existed in the first place."

Therefore any credit AP might claim for last year's detection is tempered by 6 years of seemingly deep rooted deception by insiders that it is not clear have ever even been identified or whose motives determined who defeated whatever controls were in place (and that is after a previous restatement of accounts!). AP were the ones 'asleep at the wheel' as the AP board are in the driving seat of the company not their auditors.

[valhamos] 07/5/2019 21:23

"Deloitte’s apparently damning audit report verdict" was only issued after they were told about the accounting irregularities. They did not discover the issue themselves because they were asleep at the wheel. You would expect a decent audit team to discover journals processed without review for material items, or unreconciled balance sheet accounts. There was a failure of balance sheet substantiation under the previous finance team, in other words the accounting controls were inadequate - the checking of such controls is a part of the audit process.

It is important to understand that the qualified opinion is not in relation to the closing balance sheet and only relates to the allocation of the correction to the accounting irregularities to prior periods.

"The qualification relates solely to the allocation of this adjustment across the income statement in the current and prior years, and the consequential impact on the balance sheet as at 1 February 2017. The qualification does not affect the closing balance sheet as at 31 January 2018."

[welshdaff] 07/5/2019 19:08

Recent posts are thought provoking and personal time spent working on unconnected regulatory matters has unearthed messages very pertinent to AP. Undetected accounting failures appear to fall into two broad categories – 1) rogue insiders taking calculated steps to circumvent existing governance procedures for gain or otherwise (often limited to brief periods) and 2) intentional falsification going unnoticed because detection controls never existed in the first place. In complete contrast unintentional misstatement resulting from poor governance is usually picked up by auditors because no steps are taken to hide it.

Auditors performance may be unacceptable in recently investigated cases but in most instances their crime is not identifying the already embedded failings of boards. Changing an auditor is necessary but will not address the source of the problem. In all cases the auditors last formal opinion should be a reference point. It took under 10 minutes to discover Deloitte issued a ‘qualifiedR17; opinion for AP citing its basis as three points of company failure being a) journals processed without review b) unreconciled balance sheets (but no details) and c) records inappropriately created and manipulated. These seem worryingly basic/fundamental and apparently refer to all years of unmanaged accounting errors.

In bad cases of poor internal governance a board could never publicly sue its auditor because the truth would be revealed to shareholders in a counter-claim. Prosecuting employees can provide fear of the same. Venek raised related questions and is entitled to be making assumptions. Likewise regarding a new audit Chair being announced at AP at the soonest and most convenient time of the year any company would ideally choose if wishing to disguise the replacement of a non-performer.

Its no wonder John Kingman has been scathing in his report on the regulator going awol, leaving unchecked inadequate corporate governance practices that expose shareholders to big avoidable losses. Auditors are only ever part of the problem but it is Deloitte’s apparently damning audit report verdict on the board’s inability to protect investors that seems to be slipping under the radar.

[shiv1986] 07/5/2019 11:44

ADVFN is hosting an investor event for a firm; Avation plc, on the 21st May to find out about their future prospects.

Sign up to attend this event in order to meet the Finance Director of Avation plc along with the ADVFN team:

[venek] 07/5/2019 10:01

It happens...Hence the need for good governance to avoid massive losses of shareholder value.

Sometimes one massive failing can help hide other bad business decisions. Kraft also over paid for acquisitions just as AP seem to have done and have been struggling with brands that have not proved to be durable in a changing environment.

At least AP acquisitions of, in their case, non-core businesses were stopped a year ago when their accounting scandal hit.

[pvb] 07/5/2019 00:00

Kraft Heinz warns it will have to restate almost three years of results after finding £140m error in its accounts

"it had discovered employee 'misconduct' after launching an investigation."



It happens...

[venek] 02/5/2019 18:28

Sleepy, indeed you are correct, he is the current FD of the shower and bathroom fittings group.

[sleepy] 02/5/2019 18:08

Venek - Shaun Smith may be an ex Finance Director but I believe he is the current FD of Norcros?

[venek] 02/5/2019 17:11

More BS hype (groan). They have just announced three new associate (i.e zero hours) consultants.

Quick research shows one has another job and a second has two other jobs and of course they are available for customers to hire direct as zero hour people always are...

Still no movement replacing their falling Senior / Principal Consultant ranks. But perhaps there is no need if airline work is in the doldrums. Brexit uncertainty and rising oil prices is likely to suppress airline industry investment for most of this year I think.

In facts its been a long time since BS announced winning ANY new business! No doubt why posting out a few zero hour employment contracts is seen as news worthy.

BS also claim they are now managing the Safesky's business* (something I don't think AP has actually announced). This is therefore a more interesting development. There isn't that much real synergy and most likely it'll just divert focus. Unless of course a welcome sell off of these non-core areas is (finally) on the cards.

It will though help muddy the subsidiary accounts and make performance even more opaque, unless on 9 May and the again in 2020 they really strive to add clarity on actual sector performance.

*Safeskys are based in High Wycombe, BS in Fairoaks (where their rented office space and training rooms are under threat from a plan to turn the airfield into a Garden Village) and Clockwork in central London, all remote from the AP office at Gatwick Airport.

[venek] 02/5/2019 15:56

Maybe. I only have a handful of shares left and am unlikely to re-invest under the current regime and have no tolerance for happy clappy sunlight uplands AGMs.

[vprt] 02/5/2019 11:55

I might, but will not know until just beforehand (depends on the dayjob). You?

[venek] 02/5/2019 11:28

Dollman was Group Finance Director at John Menzies 2002 to 2013.
Replaces Shaun Smith, also an ex Finance Director.
AGM 26 Jun 2019. Anyone going?

[pvb] 02/5/2019 10:41

Results due 9th May.

"Appointment of Paul Dollman as Non-Executive Director and Chair of the Audit and Risk Committee"

[venek] 25/4/2019 12:05

And today's plunge into managing an airline's Ops Control Centre is another distracting diversification that means the service to their core customers is at risk when its foggy in the Channel or an airport runs out of contriollers:

No indication (as ever) from AP on the value. Press reports there are 7 redundancies as a result.


Is it not a bit over hyping it to call Aurigny, Guernsey's flag carrier? Are they not the only carrier on the island? Especially as it turns out their routes are under threat:

They have also now put APs Emergency Planning "Division" into Consultancy and Training. More muddying of the reporting waters. Par for the course.