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[the real capitalcity] 25/11/2002 13:15

QUESTION: If one of the firemen's house was on fire would they let it burn to the ground on principal?

No, I don't think so either!

[kizer] 23/11/2002 00:23

Has the morning meeting avoided the strike?

[dobcroft] 23/11/2002 00:05

e-boffin, you are right. I posted earlier about a friend of ours who is a top grade MLSO;



The hospital lab employees are truly one of the forgotten public sector workers, along with certain other areas. They are not as high profile as doctors or nurses, or firefighters for that matter, therefore they are not important. Paid peanuts, work long hours and on call, criticised when things go wrong, and medical degree and prof qualifications required.

Currently the reverse of the situation with firefighters, about 40 jobs for each applicant! I wonder why?

It's about time the firefighters look at what's going on in the real world.

[dil] 22/11/2002 20:14

I've lost sympathy with them.

against

[sanc] 22/11/2002 20:02

ok - I'll do a tally tomorrow :)
...but reckon somehow the against have it!

[parieur] 22/11/2002 11:45

I think that 6% would be more than fair!(in return for revising "spanish practices")

[e-boffin] 22/11/2002 11:32

The firemen must be on a reasonable package since there is no problem at all with recruitment. Compare that with Pathology graduates who earn £17k when they start.

Against.

[the real capitalcity] 22/11/2002 11:28

AGAINST:

Give them the same amount of money as the Police & Army, but make them sign similar contracts which stop them from Striking.

Also stop them from moonlighting and sleeping on the job, skiving gits.

FACT:

Their are more applicants who want to be in the fire service than serving firemen each year, for every 100 or so that apply only about 5 get in, this is not due to them meeting the grade, it comes down to the number of firemen needed.

Those that winge about their above inflation pay demands should move over and give people who want the job a chance !!!

[dobcroft] 22/11/2002 11:25

Why does Gilchrist get away with quoting their hourly pay at the take-home rate?

When the Dutch Chelsea manager (can't spell his name!) tried to do the same, the media quite rightly laughed at him.

This tactic is quite deliberately aimed to gain support from the financially uneducated Sun readers, who don't realise that their take-home is actually 2/3rds that of the firemen and doesn't include a pension deduction because they don't have a pension!

[hyper al] 22/11/2002 11:24

I would hate to see what would happen to my business if I increased all my prices by 40%, my clients would just laugh and say goodbye.

Hospital support staff work just as hard as firemen and for far less that £18-22k

I think they should get an inflation based rise only.

Hospital staff need more pay, most people visit the hospital at some point but very few of us need the help of the fire service.

[trojan] 22/11/2002 11:06

Here! Here!

[trojan] 22/11/2002 09:45

Gillchrist looks like a good candidate for a spitting image puppet to go with that other muppet BLAIR!!!!

[thegreatgeraldo] 22/11/2002 09:34

Every cloud has a silver lining.... the longer the strike goes on , the more we get entertained by that clown gillchrist :-)

[edward3] 22/11/2002 09:30

Good idea wwwilliams


Against...

[andrewd] 22/11/2002 09:29

Great idea. If only we had a government with the bottle to do it.

[trojan] 22/11/2002 09:27

Excellent Idea!!

[wwwilliams] 22/11/2002 09:23

Do what Reagan did with the air traffic controllers awhile back. Sack 'em and start hiring - most applications would be from existing firemen - but they'd have to be quick or be trampled in the rush.

[isis] 22/11/2002 09:18

A firemens pension is literally 'fireproof'.

[dobcroft] 22/11/2002 09:14

Is anyone able to confirm exactly what pension benefits a fireman is likely to receive?

It has argued by many that firemen fail to recognise many of the benefits of their remuneration, and are placing too much emphisis on their 'basic' salary.

Last night I tried to establish what a fireman's 'lifetime' income is likely to be, I put together a spreadsheet with the assumption that their pension was a 2/3 salary one. I compared this to myself, and was quite shocked/upset to see that the fireman is going to be paid more than me in our lifetimes. I have a BSc, professional qualifications, work at least 49 hours, and have responsibility for 20 staff. I have recently hit the dizzy hights of being a top rate tax payer. It is possible that a fireman may look at my salary (very slightly more than what they are asking for) with envy. Yet I can now state that in our lifetimes a fireman will receive an income higher than mine.*

If his/her pension is 100% salary as indicated above, then I will be applying for a fireman job tommorrow.

IMHO it is essential that their pay should reflect regional differences in the job market, and the starting salary of £18k for a school leaver is far too high. There should be a lower starting salary, with better career structure to reward experience.



* This is not taking into account the probability that a fireman is going to live longer than me since he/she is fitter and healthier and less stressed. This is not taking into account that a fireman will pay less tax than me. This is not taking into account that a fireman has the time to take extra work, or save money by doing his/her own home maintenance.

[bomfin] 22/11/2002 08:32

Still against.
The FBU's bargaining chip is our lives. I heard The New York Firemen accepted a 10% pay rise. Also Aberdeen Fire Chief said it takes days to learn to operate red engines. They say they're worth it. I think they'd get hundred of thousands of young people with a better attitude to do it for current pay. 16% over 2 years, will get it in just over 1 is more than reasonable.
bomfin

[kizer] 22/11/2002 07:57

Boobly - agree - Our armed forces are the real hero's here.

[cmjham40] 22/11/2002 07:41

Totally Against.......In my opinion if anyone dies as a direct result of this action, the union head guy should get the jail. Someone has to be held accountable. They are in a position of responsibilty

examples

The guy who fell asleep causing rail crash......jailed

The chemist issuing wrong medicine by mistake....Jailed.

[jacsom] 22/11/2002 07:33

Against.

Sanc, as this is a poll can we have an update on the voting please?

js.