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[mondello] 15/11/2002 11:52

against

i full agree with trojan.

[bomfin] 15/11/2002 11:47

I havn't voted here yet so i'll add my AGAINST to the growing list.

I wasn't going to say this as it could be thought of as a bit of a brag but it is the truth.
I trained to be a P.E teacher. They had far more applicants for the places than those who were accepted. They admitted 50 out of over 1000 applicants and in all honesty there wasn't a big difference between the physical aptitude of any of us. One of the successful applicants was a tremendous swimmer. He was as thick as 2 short planks though and couldn't do hardly any of the academic work.
He left after 2 months of the 4 year graduation course and became a fireman.
He was actually a nice lad from The Highlands of Scotland. I won't say exactly where as someone may know who I'm talking about. Someone though didn't get a place because of him and he earned 4 years wages before any of the rest of us started to earn.
Now, he probably thinks he's a hero if he's been listening to Gilchrist when many work a lot harder to get a similar wage. Those who think teaching is easy should try it but it's not a wealth creator just like firemen and those who work in public service should unerstand that.
Take oil workers on North Sea platforms for instance. Very harsh conditions, dangerous, long working hours and they create the wealth which is keeping this economy going. Wealth creation must be the priority of any government and that is where the highest rewards should be. Without it there is no chance of Britain being the 4th economy in the world and there will obviously be less to go round for everyone. The country needs perspective and firmen need to know what there value is relative to all factors. There are hundereds of thousands of young people who would happily become a fireman at the present wage.
bomfin

[dsmith626] 15/11/2002 11:35

Jax, we'll have to agree to disagree. My apologies for any unkind comments.

[jaxaxe] 15/11/2002 11:31

dS smith,
thankyou for your kind comments;in answer to your query,is it worth losing sleep over yes - and if more people took a stand against blackmail,just as the government does against terrorism the world would be a much safer one in which to live.Lets not kid our selves that this stike is anything but subtle terrorism..the old,infirm and the most vulnerable are in danger due to the callous disregard by the fire service;the lack of cover has many of our older population living in mortal fear of being burned to death.

[jaxaxe] 15/11/2002 11:16

The government are taking unfair critisism over this issue;what has Gilchrist been doing over the past ten years!
This situation didnt just materialise overnight!I just wonder if the pro lobby have even been to the fbu web site and looked at the pay scale for the fire service.Do they realise that its possible to earn over 46k and that the starting rate for a teenager is almost 18k.Why do some firemen never move up the pay scale...the simple answer is that they are - to put it bluntly..THICK!
These uneducated people lack the ambition to succeed and to climb the ranks..itshardly the governments fault itsthe fault of the firemen themselves...TYPICALLY THEY WANT MONEY FOR NOTHING!

[jaxaxe] 15/11/2002 10:59

Ive used bluetack.....Parrrrhp....parrrrrhp...its non stop!
jax.

[dsmith626] 15/11/2002 10:59

Jax, you're a very sad individual. Even if you're telling the truth, is it worth destroying your peace and quiet/sleep for?

[dsmith626] 15/11/2002 10:58

Exactly the same. The wife is a nurse. She deserves more pay. The health services have received 'some' incentivising pay rises over the last few years, but its not enough. Teachers I have less sympathy for, but again, they do a job I wouldn't do for any money. Police? again, they deserve a lot more for the grief and aggro they get.

But the point is that the fire services have had NO incentivising pay rises. They face budget cut after budget cut every year. More towns and villages are left to the mercy of part-time firefighters who have to get to the station before they can get to any fire!

As with all things in life, you get what you pay for and we're currently NOT paying!

[big dan likes boys] 15/11/2002 10:56

Jax

Hope your house doesn't catch fire!

[jaxaxe] 15/11/2002 10:54

Theres a very large sign in my front window saying;`Dont give the firemen 40% Y because they`re not worth it`.Underneath in large letters it says toot if you support me,I havent been able to sleep since putting it in the windows the noise of car horns blaring and hooting....parrrrhp...there you go,another one as Im typing.
Jax.

[big dan likes boys] 15/11/2002 10:53

dsmith

What will you say to the nurses, police and teachers if the firemen get more than 11%?

[dsmith626] 15/11/2002 10:50

To all those against... Have you ever had to do a fireman's job? No, probably not. So you don't have the faintest idea of what you're talking about.

I was in the forces for the last firemen's strike and did my stint on firefighting duty. Shovelling charred bits of humans out of a window is not for the fainthearted. (You don't know there are 'bits' of human remains in the debris when you're clearing up the mess).

At the time, whenever I passed a firestation I tooted in support.

The FBU are realistic, they know they won't get 40%. But if they ask for 10%, they'll get negotiated down to a usual pathetic 3-4% - which is precisely what they've been offered when asking for 40%. So they're holding on for a better deal.

Its all very well saying sack the lot of them and replace them all. And what does the country do while all the new firefighters are being trained? Get real.

Firefighters work a pattern of 4 12 hour shifts on, 4 days off. Work out the hours per week for yourselves. But they're not lazy gits who only work half a week!!!

I'm against the strike in as much as I regret that lives are at risk. But I'm all for the firemen getting a decent pay rise. Just sorry they've been FORCED into taking drastic action in order to be taken seriously!

[avatar o8o] 15/11/2002 10:39

Jessica,

Avatar o8o, you are living in a different world !

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lol, I wish I was, but currently I am living in this one which is based on the philosophy of "more is good"

Who in this country thinks they are not worth more? 99% of the population? 99.5%? We are brought up to want more and consider more is better. Do you think this is by accident? That is how societies like ours function and ultimately how they will demise.

The average guy on the street doesn't really have any idea of macro economic principles and implications on a consumerist society. You will find plenty who complain about how manufacturing in this country has gone downhill, but few who realise that we have priced ourselves out of the market by ridiculous wage claims for the simplest jobs.

We have an enormous health budget, but much is spent on obscure treatments that are rocketing in cost and benefit the few, at the expense of basic care for the majority.

We object to increasing tax, to increasing community charges but support greater public spending.

The Firemen are just another public service that does a great job but should not not have licence to name their own wage and then be used as a comparision for everyone else who thinks they are worth as much as a Fireman.

Our society is based on dissatisfaction. Dissatisfaction with what we have so we can try and get more, never stopping to realise and appreciate what we have in the present.

So in conclusion, yes I'd like to live in a different world, but this one will have to do for now!

[big dan likes boys] 15/11/2002 10:34

Against

I'd fight them all the way. Right down to hiring all new firefighters to replace them. Those soldiers get a hell of a lot less than the firemen and work more hours.

How do you think it makes nurses feel who earn a lot less.

They have about 40 people applying for each post which doesn't suggest they are underpaid.

40% is just outrageous in this economic climate of low inflation. If the government give in it will give all the other unions free run to strike for outrageous claims too.

[cocky] 15/11/2002 10:30

against,but when a tube drivers on 31k for driving a remote control train seems a bit low even if they work a 3 hr week

[tom555] 15/11/2002 10:26

Jessica , I did say in general.

[jessicaf] 15/11/2002 10:24

jaxaxe, "nobody on this planet gets a 40% increase increase in pay" ?

Don't be so sure. I have managed a 42% pay rise previously.

At the end of the day why are you all complaining ? If they are that irelivatn the forget them. Oh, I forgot, was it because you are a little worried that you MAY ACTUALLY NEED THEM !

LET THEM HAVE THE MONEY.

As many have already said is money or life more important ?

I say life, so pay them and they can get on with saving lives !

[geraldp] 15/11/2002 10:23

For and I'm willing to pay the extra tax to pay for it (and the other public workers).

GP

[avatar o8o] 15/11/2002 10:21

jaxaxe,

Well said!

[jessicaf] 15/11/2002 10:19

Avatar o8o, you are living in a different world !

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tom555 - 15 Nov'02 - 09:39 - 164 of 170


What you'll find in most cases is that people who earn a lot less than 30k are against the strikes whilst people who earn a lot more are generally for it.

Personally I think most people in this country need a 100% pay rise in order to justify the housing boom.
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I earn less than £30k a year and back it as do many others. You cannot use your salary to reflect your support. A £100,000 p.a. bank manager needs the service that theyr provide as much as the person on the dole. WE NEED FIREMENT & THEY NEED OUR SUPPORT.

The gov screws us at every opportunity and I don't blame the firemen for wanting something back ! After all, the gov have made life difficult for everyone.