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[jaxaxe] 15/11/2002 10:17

Jessica,
I rather suspect that you are one of the blue-rinse set that has a penchant for muscular young men in uniform - in particular-firemen.You shouldnt worry Im sure that now this bunch of insurgents are on strike the working mens clubs will have no shortage of recruits for their `grabafireman nights.
You mustnt believe the propagander put about by the fbu that being a fireman is just about saving lives,if that was the case then they would have a moral duty to work...the vast part of a firemans working life is spent checking hydrants and other mundane tasks;Statistics make it abundantly clear that being a fireman is way way down the list of dangerous jobs.As a woman you should also be aware that the fbu have for years resisted the influx of women into the service;there are just token few in the service despite the recruitment waiting lists being equally full of both men and women potential recruits.
The real issue here is not that they deserve more pay(I believe that they have a case for more pay)its the way that these egotistcal blackmailers have gone about it.The sheer arrogance of the slogan..Y Because Were Worth it ..is a prime example of the fbu`s disregard to anyone but themselves.
There is a waiting list for firemen a mile long for every job there are 46 applicants.
Firemen get paid for a job of work,going into burning buildings is part of that work,that is why the government spent fortunes training them to do just that.The same is said for our magnificent armed forces who receive a lot less in pay or pension rights...but do face far more dangerous situations on a far regular basis.These men and women are doing thefire mens jobs right now with no complaints-apart from the ones from the FBU who are fuming because the government havenow decided to tell the soldiers to cross the picket lines to get access and to have the use of the red engines which are far more appropriate for livesaving duties.On the last firemens strike a soldier was killed because he lost control of the green goddess that he was driving to a fire.
The firemen have had a pay offer put to them -a very generous one and they have rejected it out of hand;the government have said come back to the table and we will try again,the fbu say no,we are sticking out fo 40%....nobody on this planet gets a 40% increase increase in pay - and then refuse to change their working practises to compensate.These greedy blackmailers want their cakewith jam on it and want to eat the bloody thing as well!
...The retainers and the army deserve nothing but praise for their unswerving loyalty to duty and the public......the strikers deserve nothing but contempt!!
J.Levi.

[stewjames] 15/11/2002 10:02

Colon power, I suspect Mr Gilchrist is using an after-tax and maybe even after pension payments figure.

[avatar o8o] 15/11/2002 10:02

Personally, I think all essential services, to life or the proper operation of society, e.g public transport etc should be prevented from going on strike.

If each of these industries had for example 3 year contracts stating the payrise each year e.g RPI+0.5 and the working conditions spelled out, those who signed it would be legally bound to carry out their duties.

In the 2nd year a new contract would be prepared in consultation with the unions for the next 3 years. Anyone who didn't agree to it could indicate their intention to leave in a years time. This would give the employer time to train someone else up who would be happy with those conditions and pay and the employee time to find another job when he leaves.

If the employer cannot find suitable applicants, he will have to increase his pay offer and or improve conditions. If he can, the employee needs to lower their expectation of their worth. Supply and demand just like everything else that operates in our society!

[colon power] 15/11/2002 09:58

Against.
Where does all this £6.00 per hour Gilchrist spouts on about come from. A qualified firefighter earns £21,500 per annum.

So:
£21,500 divided by 52 weeks = £403.85 per week.
£403.85 divided by 42 hours = £ 9.62 per hour. Even if it is a 48 hr week it is £8.40 per hour. They don't get overtime as there has been a ban for years. Gilchrist says he wants £8.50 per hour. For a 42 hour week this comes to approx £18,500 per annum so is he asking for a £3000 wage reduction?

[bobalex2000] 15/11/2002 09:48

Just a thought. Sam the fireman goes out for the evening with his wife and leaves the kids with a babysitter. A fire starts in Sams house and a Green Goddess rushes to the scene at its top speed of 35 mph. Unfortunately, by the time it gets there, the fire is out of control and the occupants are beyond saving. How will Sam and his workmates feel?

[tom555] 15/11/2002 09:39

What you'll find in most cases is that people who earn a lot less than 30k are against the strikes whilst people who earn a lot more are generally for it.

Personally I think most people in this country need a 100% pay rise in order to justify the housing boom.

[avatar o8o] 15/11/2002 09:37

This risking their life nonsence is all out of proportion.

They are trained in a potentially dangerous job to do it as safely as possible.

Does a lifeguard risk their life? A lollipop lady? A miner? A Jockey? A deep sea fisherman? A trucker going down the M6 in the rain with all the whackos behind him doing 90mph? A Zookeeper? A bouncer? A window cleaner working up a high ladder?

Yes they do, but the risk is managed by proper training! Everyone cannot earn top wage or even average wage for that matter. If it is such a skillful job how come the forces can put out that bloody big fire in manchester yesterday? What was it on the telly - 2 months to learn how to use the metal cutters? yeah right.

Don't get me wrong, I think the firemen do a great job, but they already get a decent wage for doing a job that as the forces have proved in a few days training, is not exclusively difficult to do. In fact, with a weeks training could the firemen learn all about weaponry, radiocomms and warfare, fly out to the battlezones to potentially get shot by a sniper for a meagre servicemans wage?

[dobcroft] 15/11/2002 09:24

I'm not surprised that there is on the whole less support for the firemen on this BB than there is with the general public. I've just had a conversation with 5 members of my staff (accounts clerks) who told me that they were fully behind the strike. Familiar statements like:

"But they deserve it, especially after 9/11"
"I can't believe they earn less than my husband"
"It's only £6 an hour you know, that's not much more than us"
"They work long hours don't they, I don't expect they see much of their families"
"They are brave, you wouldn't get me up a ladder"

[rrrutbuster] 15/11/2002 08:53

Just driven past the local firestation

There is a sign outside saying *Honk if you luv us*

Guess what...........SILENCE

[yf23_1] 15/11/2002 03:55

JessicaF

I didn't join the fire service because I spent an awfully long time educating myself so I didn't have to trade risking my life against a decent salary.
Get it ?
Firefighting is a job, just like any other job, and each job has its attractions in its own way to different people. You know the specifications of the job when you apply, unless you're really thick you weigh up the benefits against the drawbacks when you apply.
So stop pushing the public sympathy allowance.

[jessicaf] 15/11/2002 03:24

GIVE THEM THE MONEY.

IN FACT, LET THEM HAVE A 50% PAY RISE !

IF NOT, GO AND SAVR YOUR OWN FAMILY FROM A BURNING HOUSE WHILE EVERYONE ELSE IS RUNNING AWAY !

IF YOU ALL THINK THAT IT IS SO EASY, AND SO WELL PAID WHY HAVE YOU NOT YET JOINED ?

AS SOMEONE HAS ALREADY SAID, THEY RISK THEIR LIVES !

MANY PEOPLE HAVE ASKED IF THE MONEY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE'S LIVES, THE ANSWER IS NO AND THAT ID WHY THEY SHOULD GET THE RISE SO THAT THEY CAN CARRY ON SAVING LIVES ! IF YOU HAVE NOT FORGOTEN, THEY RISK THEIR LIVES TO SAVE OURS !

YOU SHOULD ALL JUST PRAY THAT IT'S NOt YOU THAT NEEDS TO CALL THEM !

STOP COMPLAINING AND PAY UP !

[yf23_1] 15/11/2002 03:09

GoodCall - there is nothing wrong with the IC if you know how to separate the wheat from the chaff and it also acts as a good quick reference to results.

jaxaxe - "Too much analysing leads to depression and serious mind disfunction"..
... especially as nobody really has a clue as to what I'm on about and are hardly likely to change their spending patterns. Britain is a dead duck imploding on its own parochialness.

[brainclamp] 15/11/2002 00:56

You seem to think they are offered 11% - But the Sun says Deputy Dog Prescott interviened last night and offered 20%. It was turned down thank god.

20%! We are to be a 3rd world country at this rate! Inflation will skyrocket - all those fools who bought houses on 25 year morgages will see rising rates and unemployment fast.

[jaxaxe] 15/11/2002 00:45

Absoloutely against...And Gilchrist should be horsewhipped!

[spongy2] 15/11/2002 00:37

Burst bubble..

BS meter is right off the scale now by the looks of it, Lawyers on 30k a day???, lol, not on planet earth they ar'nt.

Many of them are lucky if they get that in a year.
They only get paid for the work they do, unlike the firemen.

[km11] 15/11/2002 00:03

Biomax - 14 Nov'02 - 07:08 - 107 of 120
suck all the lazzy suckers

Wouldn't this be seen as a bonus Bio?

Against

[bradwell] 14/11/2002 22:37

goodcall

IDS is as electable as michael foot was!!!!

Jaxaxe

Try taking your own advice... you do need help!!!

[jaxaxe] 14/11/2002 21:47

yf23,
may I make a suggestion that you lay off the drugs that you are on before posting.Too much analysing leads to depression and serious mind disfunction...you my friend are on the verge of a breakdown.Seek help before it is too late.
your friend,Jack Levi.

[bourdon] 14/11/2002 20:56

Hectorp/Goodcall

we have our priorities all wrong, first and foremost we want a well educated, healthy and safe population

the tabloid press and people like you pretend that you care about the state of our public services one day, then complain about taxes the next. you get what you put in.

Dark Matter

no i am not a teacher, but if you think teachers work short hours you are clearly clueless

[brainclamp] 14/11/2002 19:19

There is 20% on the table offered by prescott - all they have to do now is grab it and agree 'in principle' to a few working conditions which will never appear later 'cept in a watered down form, and they will be on 27K basic plus thier fiddle work which pumps 'em upto 33K. They keep thier final salary and being paid for sleeping, 4 days off etc..

[dark matter] 14/11/2002 19:08

bourbon, are you a teacher?