|Stifel have upgraded today with a new target price of 1865 (up from 1540). I think currency changes will add at least 50p to the last published NAV.|
|cordwainer, here you go...
|PE thread, where is that ?
had remarkably lucky break with PIN, buying in on 27 June 2016 because of massive 30% discount at the time.
huge beast of a fund though, and I've no idea how to judge this type of fund other than maybe it's NAV acts like a global p.e. tracker since its a fairly diverse £billion or so, or why there is such disparity of discount / premium among other p.e. funds.|
|Hope to find the time to post my NAV Table on the PE thread today, though perhaps will wait for the weekend. Agreed, discounts are closing in across the board. One standout is HGT, now at 1515p on just a 3.9% discount to the 1577p NAV!|
|My point exactly tilts, I think managers are having to think about how long they can get away with quoting an NAV that is very conservative. After all, if the NAV is 30-35% below true value, and the share price is 20% below the NAV then anyone can come along and make a bid of 25% above the share price and it will stand a chance of succeeding.|
|JPEL/ELTA sold Innovia yesterday, resulting in a 32% uplift!|
|Valuation gain of 1.8% last month. Overall a loss because of currency movements but with sterling back at 1.23/1.24 that will have been reversed in December. I'm not sure whether the SVI takeover has affected things but NAV valuations in the PE sector seem to have become a little less conservative in recent months.|
|Yes, surprisingly dramatic NAV increase of 115.5p (5.9%) - mostly from forex (5.5%) so will have partially unravelled since; but nevertheless, for the moment the discount is back above the 20% threshold - 1640p = 21.5%:
|Nice update. Still boring, still a big discount. Getting back more than it puts in as well.|
|Sorry, I had forgotten the "promise to buy" bit; that was indeed crafty.
Greed exploitation at its best, like a forced underwritting of shares not yet placed.
Interesting stock to enter at some point indeed. The only annoying bit is the no-dividend policy, but it does have its silver-lining too when it comes to absolute growth and the nature of the PE business.
By the way, get an upvote for post #195.|
|vacendak, yes cash drag was a partic issue for PIN during its earlier years as it only invested in secondaries, the availability of which were much more bumpy back then. This made an overcommitment policy impossible and a need to hold cash to buy secondaries if/when they became available. PLNs were the boards answer to this, allowing PIN to become fully invested ie no cash drag, but pull down the PLNs when investment opps became available. Some large insurance cos were happy to oblige. However, after a few years it emerged that PLNs had tax issues and so they got converted into PINRs. By now PIN was heavily investing into primary funds using an overcommitment policy, while the PINRs were used for any secondary opps. By 2008, as with the rest of the sector, the level of overcommitment was too heroic for choppy conditions. Oh dear me, and value destruction aplenty ensued - yes take a bow 3i, SVG and Candover - and the sector ruined its reputation. However, clever/lucky PIN had a big chunk of PINR facility undrawn. Despite "unhappiness" the insurance cos weren't able to duck out of their obligations, although they did get the 2 x £50m drawdowns in loan notes rather than PINR. However, in 2011 when the facility was wound up, these loan notes were converted back into PINR. Well done to the board!
After all that excitement, PIN went back to a much more conservative investment policy, concentrating on secondaries (now a much more liquid mkt) and no overcommitment. And then more recently its also been doing directs.
I know that the possibility of converting the PINR into PIN has been looked at in the past by the board, but clearly nothing came of it for whatever reason. But that doesn't mean that some sort of corporate action won't happen at some stage and the extra discount to PIN be wiped out. I switched from PIN into PINR a while ago and are happy to sit and wait.|
|@MF, @ Rambutan
Thanks for the info. Reading the older posts, this thread is very civilised indeed. :)
I hold a bit of LLOY but stay clear of the discussions over there as everything but Lloyds seems to be discussed.
The PIN website would be more helpful if they kept an archive of their prospectus or at least a document clearly identifying the way things work. Having to guess to look at news from 1999 to understand said structure is not right.
I have read the history of the Participating Loan Notes and the subsequent "redeemables", very instructive.
From what I understand, the PLNs story was because they had too much cash sitting around and the redeemables because, well... 2007-08 happened.
I now also get the meaning of the term redeemable, for some reason I was fixating on redeeming on the investor side, like exercising a warrant, not Pantheon's decision to propose a redemption.
I agree with the earlier comments on the PINR shares. The best deal seems to be for those planning on holding them long term. I am the kind of person who holds ZDPs (and the likes) to redemption, so I would not mind entering PIN with PINR shares. From the history of the trust they might come up with some new fancy vehicles to transfer/convert the redeemables as years go by anyway.
Assuming that Pantheon Ventures (www.pantheon.com) is the same company as Pantheon International Participations Plc. I seem to already have "some of it" via FRCL. I have only recently put a toe in the waters of PE with FPEO, happy so far. Just keeping a look on PIN, which looks good for those already holding, but knowing my luck things could go wrong soon enough if I enter on the way-up like that.
Maybe I should wait for Sterling to settle down a bit, because this is certainly pushing things up on mostly everything in my portfolio at the moment.|
|vacendak, for the whole PINR story go to the last link below (Dec 99) and work your way up. There are a few twists of fate in the tale, but ultimately PINR saved shareholders from a hit in 2009/10, albeit at the cost of the institutions (as far as i remember a v few big insurance cos, able to treat them in their books as non equity instruments) who were reluctantly issued with the last tranche and at nav value, when the shares themselves were trading at a huge discount.
|They have exactly the same rights and are redeemable when the company decides, so in practice, the difference in price is simply a reflection of their lack of liquidity.|
|This may be a silly question, but what exactly are the PINR shares?
I have been checking the Pantheon website for a definition of their "Reedemable shares" (PINR) but could only read related topics: buybacks, additional issues, etc. Are they warrants or CULs of some kind?
I have also searched this thread for "PINR" and "redeemable"...|
|Up another 67p on the month and great to see its driven largely by valuation gains. GLA?|
|hpcg - your right - unless I watch daily & esp weekly risers every single day I find it hard to track/catch them all tho!
SS - yes that approach has livened this sector up - have a few FPEO & BPM - looking at HGT
Tks for thread - didn't know about that one! Bookmarked|
|LM - as a sector Private Equity has been a top-class peformer this year; and recently boosted by the unsolicited offer arriving for SVG Capital (SVI).
If you haven't shared in that success, then please don't be a late entrant to FPEO. They are way ahead of the curve on an 8% discount, though likely to be in the 12%/13% range upon current NAV status post the GBP collapse.
Peers are in the 18%-28% range - ie, far better value elsewhere in the sector.
Follow the PE thread for the runners and riders and posts on valuation anomalies:
|I think it got a mention on your thread LM, in discussion about large discounts.|
|for some reason this kept missing my screens - lovely brexit breakout :)
FPEO also interesting in the private equity space
|PINR climbed a quid yesterday, although remain £2 behind PIN. At some stage that discount will close right up.|
|Share price certainly not taken a summer hols, as the offer hits £15 today.
|I've sent it to you Sky|