China Biodiesel Share Discussion Threads

[tim00] 16/6/2010 10:47

Tender closes 25 June, but the company delists in mid-July. What happens in between? Will the share price bomb? If anyone wants to hold on to their stock, there might be a buying opportunity. Presumably stock in play will be limited though, confined to people who missed deadlines etc.

[aim11] 16/6/2010 10:21

i phoned around the MMs yesterday and the best i could get for my line of stock was 14.5 so not sure whats going on here

[tim00] 16/6/2010 08:05

yes, I think so.

[qipincha] 15/6/2010 22:40

two options:
Do not tender(default): XXX
Tender offer: XXX

so if I would like to take the offer, I should put number of shares after the option of "tender offer"?

[qipincha] 15/6/2010 22:09

hi guys, I got email regarding tender offer from dealer, how about you?

[aim11] 15/6/2010 10:15

even now MM's are trying to rip off the small PI- bid now at 14.5 and flip into the tender at 16.5. complete disgrace.

[tim00] 15/6/2010 09:38

yep agreed re wcc. A great long-term play. Notice there are CBI sellers! I'd sell at 16p to invest elsewhere, but not under 15!

[aim11] 15/6/2010 09:31

tim00 - imho v few people are aware of the wcc story, most of the ones in it a few months ago were just buying for the hk list and didn't have much of a clue about eps or even what the strategy of the biz was etc etc. that's another reason its languishing down where it is, not many understand it'll do 120p this yr (and imho it'll be closer to 135-140p).

[tim00] 15/6/2010 05:53

£1.20 is the estimated eps for 2010.

[qipincha] 14/6/2010 22:43

great! thanks tim.

all my stocks are doing well today!

I read a few RNS of WCC, but cann't find the £1.2profit per share. Maybe I missed some RNS. thought was about 50p by the end of 2009?

[tim00] 13/6/2010 23:22

qip, wcc is making about £1.20 earnings per share this year, giving a current p/e of 4. Competitors trade on p/e ratios of over 10, implying the share price should more than double. Results for H1 will be announced early September. The company has delayed its move to the HK exchange, hence the fallback.

[qipincha] 13/6/2010 21:20

tim, thanks to point it out
I thought the company is under valued.
so why wcc in August?
I watched it a while, saw it rocket up and then fall back, not sure what it is doing now

[zangdook] 12/6/2010 21:44

Cornishman

Another way to do it might be to decide how many shares you want to keep, get your nominee to issue you a certificate for that many, and then tender the remainder in your nominee account. Even though it's not your entire holding, I don't see how they could refuse (or even know about it).

I don't know if there would be time to do this. If you have a wife you could transfer some to her, perhaps.

[tim00] 12/6/2010 15:37

qip, re: PMHL, forget the property angle, the reason to buy is that the company has over £50 mn allocated to buy back shares in order to close the gap to NAV (somewhere north of £3). Whatever value you put on the property assets, it doesn't alter the fact that the company's share purchases will force the share price substantially higher, probably during July. The majority shareholder already owns 60% of the shares, so the supply will be limited, but the new demand (via buybacks) will be overwhelming.

[thecornishman2] 12/6/2010 14:19

Thanks for the replies all.

As a couple of posters have pointed out, the tender offer is on an all-or-nothing basis with regard to existing shareholdings, but I would see no reason (before the record date) why one could not reduce a shareholding in the market to a level that one would be comfortable keeping in the unlisted company (perhaps reclaiming the original investment cost), declining the offer and then withdrawing the remaining shares from nominee into certificated form.

The downside of that would be that one would have to accept a lower price, miss the dividend and incur higher charges than simply accepting the offer would involve.

I'm going to dwell on this a little longer I think. I don't want to maintain an unlisted shareholding in a company where minority shareholders are not wanted or seen as a nuisance (past experience has taught me this can be a recipe for disaster), but if the board were happy to keep a few small shareholders around then this appears to me to be an interesting company in a potentially highly lucrative area.

Another poster suggests different China plays; I already have China Shoto & Griffin Mining and have looked at WCC more than once. The reason I would be interested in maintaining a holding here is the green energy aspect and what I perceive to be an extremely conservatively managed company in terms of its balance-sheet.

The main downside, as others have pointed out, is that obviously there is no guaranteed way for crystalizing value from the remaining shareholding. If I recall correctly the majority shareholder has tended to decline his own right to claim dividends, whilst allowing other shareholders to be paid. I really value this kind of behaviour, but I wonder if a dividend is likely to be maintained once the holding is de-listed? I'd guess not and then obviously there is the issue of how one would eventually exit the holding if that were desired. At that stage, I guess one would be dependent on a director or other interested party within the company buying the shares but I agree their desire to take-out very small holdings might well be limited.

If I did not already have a holding here I would be buying at these levels and so it's a bit disappointing to be effectively forcibly ejected. The same thing happened with Indian Films Co. but I wasn't so keen on the business there model there.

I guess the honourable thing to do is to take the profits, say thanks, let the majority shareholder have his company back and wish him well.

It's a real shame though...

Thanks again to all who replied.

Regards,

TC

[qipincha] 12/6/2010 12:34

tim, I have briefly look at the PMHL, not sure about their move to enter property business. could be dangerous to get into property market at the moment

[zangdook] 12/6/2010 11:06

TaurusTheBear - 12 Jun'10 - 01:37 - 1450 of 1453

Question is, how you actually "tender"!?
------------------------------------------

There's some paperwork here

[tim00] 12/6/2010 08:48

that's impressive Mike. I hold 4% of the outstanding shares. The question is, if we were all buying so many (I know you use spread bets but presumably the counterparty has matched positions), how come the share price didn't rise? I guess we had IIs selling out. The share price is very disappointing, but with liquidity so poor a positive is that it presents an exit, when none existed. I doubt there is much that can be done, but good luck!

[mikeja] 12/6/2010 08:11

Totally agree that small shareholders are being royally shafted.I would guess we are being taken out on a pe of less than 3.Speaking for about 33% of the outstanding shares I intend to see if anything can be done.The Worldspreads stake is mine and I know where another 1.2m are.

[tim00] 12/6/2010 06:50

Personally I think a Chinese relist would be a long time away, AIM is not that burdensome, nor expensive. Companies the size of CBI are really too small to be quoted. The hope must have been that without the global recession, CBI's share price would have been on an upward trend rather than the opposite, and they could have used AIM to raise further funds to expand more rapidly. (They've mentioned other provinces now have minimum useage of biodiesel for example.) I agree the most likely opportunity to sell would be to a Director, Ye or Gloria He, but would Ye bother to buy shares from a tiny holder and if he did, would he give you fair value? He would have a massive information advantage over the seller, and might offer you 16.5p. WCC and PMHL are excellent opportunities at the moment. One strategy is to sell CBI at close to 16p in the market by late June, buy PMHL then sell PMHL late July and invest in WCC. Excellent chance of more than doubling your money on a three month horizon.

[taurusthebear] 12/6/2010 01:37

Question is, how you actually "tender"!?

As I see it, it's just an MM situation. 16p bid was going today. Post-divi, that would seem a good price to me. :0)

[aim11] 11/6/2010 21:18

imho and having said that, there are other equally good opportunities out there without this hassle of having to hope they relist somewhere else eventually. i will be tendering mine at 16.5 and moving the money into something like wcc on 3.5x which i expect will get the move to asia in h2 and at least keep a listing, albeit in hk - not a prob for me.

[zangdook] 11/6/2010 21:14

I thought about it. I might be tempted if it were possible to tender some and keep some, even though I only have a small holding, but they won't allow it and as it happens it's come along just as I was trying to find a way to raise a little cash.

Having said that, it's possible that Mr Ye would always be glad to mop up anyone who held out, and eventually, once you've left AIM and its low valuation behind, perhaps he'd be willing to pay a better price?