Chesnara Share Discussion Threads

[wayneduncan] 19/11/2014 16:37

Bit of a mixed bag of results there!

[sogoesit] 18/11/2014 10:09

3Q IMS tomorrow.
Chart is at a turning point.
Good luck!

[joan of arc] 07/11/2014 15:22

Here, here, Hier. Anyone are to suggest why CSN is doing so badly today?

[hieronymous1] 02/11/2014 14:33

Fenner

You should start a separate thread for this discussion with one last post on the subject of the EU here to give the link.

I refrain from further engaging with your last post in order to keep the debate here on topic.

[fenners66] 02/11/2014 13:33

I had the opportunity to overhear a conversation in our job centre earlier in the year between job centre staff and a lady that was dressed in African style garb who looked African and spoke very little English. The job centre staff was trying to encourage her to apply for work whilst simultaneously acknowledging that she was unemployable until her English Language lessons gave her a grasp. She also had a toddler so quite what work she was supposed to do? I guess there was no partner hence her need to be interviewed. It progressed to the fact that she would be losing some benefit soon as her "6 months" would be up. Ok so I work all my life and I would get 6 months dole as well, then that's it ,if you have savings you get sweet FA else.
I mentioned to a friend who is in the civil service surprised that an "African" qualifies...
His answer, "She will be from Sweden"
Sweden?
Yes , they allow them into the EU and after a qualifying time, I think he said 6 months, they get a passport etc. and set off for Britain. They are dealing with 100,000 claims in his region alone, 40% get rejected initially but many are allowed on appeal.
Upshot of all the talk of EU and non EU migration is that there are ways - "legitimate" ways around it.

As for pressure on resources in the SE I know a girl who was pregnant and alone in the SE had to wait weeks for scans, housing, healthcare the lot , totally unsatisfactory outcomes and told she was a lower priority in the queue than migrants, anyway they did not have the resources to go around. Simply not enough. Message if you were born here and lived here all your life paid taxes you can take care of yourself you do not matter.

Does that happen in Australia?

[sogoesit] 31/10/2014 22:26

Well, looks like the October jitters are over and we should start next week with the November/May perennial bullish trend. Risks, obviously, will be anything to do with the general election which seems to be totally unpredictable now.
The CSN chart stood its ground with a bounce above the uptrend line and continued recent strength... with, hopefully, a break-out above the historic highs of around 360 before Christmas.
Good luck!

[pvb] 31/10/2014 17:27

Or migrate off to The Really Useful Gold Thread!

[speedsgh] 28/10/2014 12:54

CWA1/DAVE - hear hear

[daveofdevon] 28/10/2014 11:21

My view is the same as CWA1. Can we talk about Chesnara on the Chesnara thread.

If you want to put the world to rights then start your own thread

[fangorn2] 28/10/2014 10:49

Interesting question Sogoesit.
For me the more important By Election was the Labour one - solid majority cut to a measly 617 votes. Now if such a swing to UKIP were mirrored across the country then plenty of labour marginal/Tory marginal might well fall...

Whatever happens, UKIP is the only party seemingly intent on renegotiating our relationship with Europe, and , more importantly, giving anyone under 65 the right to vote on such an important and significant change in how this country is governed. Which is what democracy is all about.

[sogoesit] 28/10/2014 09:07

Will UKIP deliver enough MPs to exert policy influence in the next parliament; any views?
Apart from them no one else seems to want to address the EU issue head-on.

[fangorn2] 28/10/2014 08:43

@Lord Gnome,

I think they're all interlinked. Agree that the EU migrants tend to be young and qualified - don't have an issue with immigration per se. What I do have a problem with is "unfettered" migration from the ROTW - we're simply a small island, 200-250,000 net per year is just too many, especially as they all want to come to the South East.

I don't see how anything bar border controls and quotas in the same vein as Australia will work...

"If they are Asylum seekers, as they claim, then they can seek asylum in France."


Exactly but that is not happening as we see..they enter from Spain, Italy and make their way to France , ultimate destination being the UK.


"They see the UK as some sort of Eldorado where the streets are paved with gold, free housing, education, health care and benefits for all."


Agree - And therein lies our problem. This, and the fact we are seemingly unable to deport illegals for fear of infringing their human rights.

Time to get tough.

No benefits other than access to the NHS for the first 5 years since you migrated to these shores and you've been working consistently. So no child tax credit, child benefit, no housing benefit etc etc)

Anyone overstaying to be deported. If their original port of disembarkation is hard to establish then we simply pass the problem back to France as it would've been their responsibility for not checking when said individual entered France form one of the other EU countries. France might therefore spend more time controlling it's own borders..which in turn, if they behave similarly, will encourage the likes of Spain,Italy and Co to tighten up their side.

All long term cases of over stayers/asylum seekers to be reviewed forthwith, no amnesty. Anyone subsequently allowed to stay, gets on with it. Anyone classified as being illegal to be deported that week. The backlog is simply now ridiculous with many of these over stayers missing.

[lord gnome] 28/10/2014 08:33

Fangorn, I agree with your sentiments, but you are rather mixing up two issues. The migrants clogging up the port in Calais are not EU migrants or they would already be here. If they are Asylum seekers, as they claim, then they can seek asylum in France. They see the UK as some sort of Eldorado where the streets are paved with gold, free housing, education, health care and benefits for all. EU migrants are young educated workers by and large and they earn their keep - and work hard in my experience.

Your last two paras, however, I agree with entirely.

[fangorn2] 28/10/2014 08:19

@Hier,

"If we have some local problems with large numbers of immigrants straining services such as schools, hospitals and housing the answer lies in local and regional policy, not border controls."


Disagree.

What kind of local &regional policy can cope with net migration of 200-250,000 per year all wanting to come to the South East???

It'd be easier if many wanted to go to Wales, Scotland but the clear majority want to come to London and SE. Only border controls can cope with this problem. Regional and Local authorities don't have the manpower or funding.


@LordGnome
"They don't learn the language and they clog up the local health services. Sound familiar? The advantage that they bring is that they usually have plenty of money."

They pay, or the NHS pays, for the health services they consume - assuming their health card is accepted of course. Who pays for all those who migrate to the UK from EU, or Non EU that subsequently clog up our NHS then???

Advantage of Brit expats overseas is they usually have plenty of money. Quite. That's the point. many migrants who come to the UK have nothing.So rely on some form of welfare(Child benefit/Child tax credit)/housing benefits/NHS - who pays for all that...it certainly isn't the migrants. Case in point being all those people in Calais.

Who's going to be paying for them when they make it over?

It will be us, the UK taxpayer, in reduced service for the rest of us already here, and an ever spiralling cost of Welfare/Social security, and thus a rising national debt. We cant afford to offer NHS free at the point of use to the rest of the world. Lunacies such as Eastern Europeans coming over, working for a year, getting child benefit/child tax credits for their kids STILL in Czech Republic/Romania/Poland, who then are made redundant, leave the country, but still expect the British taxpayer to pay their unemployment benefit for the rest of their life even though they are not resident in the country.

Which loon came up with that piece of sound financial provisioning..

[cwa1] 28/10/2014 08:15

Hey guys, any chance of cutting the politics and concentrating on Chesnara?

[lord gnome] 28/10/2014 07:54

The immigration / migration issue is a red herring. We have an estimated 2 million EU migrants living in the Uk and an estimated 2.2 million British migrants living in Europe. The migrants to this country are overwhelmingly young and economically active. British migrants to Europe are overwhelmingly old farts like me. Many British in Spain live in little communities with little or no interaction or engagement with the locals. They don't learn the language and they clog up the local health services. Sound familiar? The advantage that they bring is that they usually have plenty of money.

[hieronymous1] 28/10/2014 04:24

Countries like Norway and Switzerland have agreements where they simply accept the trade rules set by the EU. They control their own borders for immigration purposes but at a very high price in economic sovereignty.

If we have some local problems with large numbers of immigrants straining services such as schools, hospitals and housing the answer lies in local and regional policy, not border controls. We need an educated and flexible workforce. Since the British education system fails to provide either in sufficient quantity or quality, we are forced to import. Just as we import our food. We have had this problem before in the postwar baby boom. I remember primary class sizes of 40 were common and 35 in secondary schools. We survived and prospered. Life in general is much better than in the 1950s.

[fenners66] 28/10/2014 01:10

After all its impossible anywhere else in the world to have a free trade agreement without a multinational federal government right?

No off course not. You CAN have free trade without giving up sovereignty.

[fangorn2] 27/10/2014 16:34

"We will leave and we will be reduced to beggary by our criminal lunatic voters."

Please explain why leaving will result in this.

Are our exports to the EU going to be subjected to tariffs? (Remember Europe exports more to us than we do them)

I suspect you'll see Europe collapse into a Free Trade area at some point - the current political model is unsustainable without closer fiscal and monetary union,and most of the citizens of Europe do not want one centralised government ie They want to maintain their national identities and independence. National Front in France epitomises that.

[hieronymous1] 27/10/2014 16:15

Never under-estimate the British national death wish. We will leave and we will be reduced to beggary by our criminal lunatic voters.

[chector177] 27/10/2014 12:26

I think the news that the £1.7billion is going to Germany £1 billion and France £600 million will make most voters see red. I think UKIP may do very well.

[fangorn2] 27/10/2014 10:47

"Latest polls show that two-thirds of British voters would vote to stay in Europe."

Did they Lord Gnome?

That was on the understanding there would be a repatriation of certain powers - if no changes are given then the vote changes considerably I think you'll find.


Fifty-five per cent said they would stay in the EU – up from 44 per cent in 2012.

IF

Major powers are returned...number drops to 44% to stay in with minor powers repatriated.

According to the results, 55 per cent of people said they would stay in with 'major' changes to the EU-UK agreement, while 44 per cent said they would do with only 'modest' renegotiation.

If there is no change in Britain's relationship with the EU then this number slips to 36 per cent, trailing behind the 42 per cent which said it would vote to opt-out of the EU in that case.

No CHANGE ie status quo then it's a switch to 44% wanting "OUT", only 36% YES to stay in.....





This in July 2014 If there is no repatriation of powers

Opinium found a total of 48% would definitely or probably vote to leave under present rules, while 37% said they would definitely or probably vote to stay in.





I suspect UKIP will do alot better than you seem to believe. The recent Labour by election being case in point, and the latest EU demand for £1.7 billion, on top of the £8-9 billion we already pay per year isn't going to do anything but bolster the anti Europe vote.

[trulyscrumptious] 27/10/2014 09:17

Thanks for such prompt replies. This is one of my biggest ISA investments and although I think we will stay in Europe, I need to have B if need be!

[jonwig] 27/10/2014 09:07

I suppose the main problem could be Sweden's regulator, which is technically independent of the EU regulators, but works closely with it - just as our own FSA and PRA do.

For insurance, it's a member of International Association of Insurance Supervisors (IAIS) as is the UK regulator. In that sense, membership of the EU isn't all that material.

What might be worth considering is that Swedish firms and individuals might be reluctant to do business with an insurer which is outside the EU - a sort of re-run of issues before the Scottish referendum.

However, it could be in CSN's interests (and ours) to sell its Swedish business rather than adapt to the new climate.

[lord gnome] 27/10/2014 09:01

Not sure about that one Truly, but fear not for Europe. Latest polls show that two-thirds of British voters would vote to stay in Europe. UKIP will lose and lose large when the referendum comes.