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Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Chesnara Plc LSE:CSN London Ordinary Share GB00B00FPT80 ORD 5P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  -4.50 -1.57% 281.50 282.00 283.50 299.50 282.00 299.50 122,088 16:35:23
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Life Insurance 293.4 24.6 14.1 19.9 422

Chesnara Share Discussion Threads

Showing 1951 to 1975 of 1975 messages
Chat Pages: 79  78  77  76  75  74  73  72  71  70  69  68  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
16/4/2021
11:29
LGEN has bounced back - and PHNX too (though to a lesser extent)
williamcooper104
16/4/2021
10:56
jonwig, a fair point, and of course the embedded value of policies varies with the yield of those gilts (broadly) too so perhaps focusing on a single year is not something one should do in a long term business like this. WC, don't think you're missing anything. At the moment this type of stock is not preferred to the cyclical value stocks or the pandemic recovery opportunities. If people see a chance of 25% gains they're not goin to buy a "steady eddie" like this
makinbuks
15/4/2021
17:26
No question this looks cheap - given the run up in share prices of others in the sector The yield looks relatively safe Wondering what I'm missing here
williamcooper104
15/4/2021
17:05
The gilts owned by CSN (and others) yield the same income as when they were bought, up to maturity. Of course, maturing gilts have to be reinvested at a lower yield.
jonwig
15/4/2021
16:32
Yes, the beauty of an insurance company is that you make your capital work twice! On one hand you write business on which you hopefully make a profit through premiums exceeding claims plus admin costs. In so doing you are required to hold a volume of gilts relative to the size of your book and you get to keep the coupon on those gilts. There have been times in my life when raking in investment income meant that turning a profit on insurance was almost overlooked. With negative real rates, until very recently, gilts yielded virtually nothing.
makinbuks
15/4/2021
09:32
Makinbuks13 Apr '21 - 11:47 - 1783 of 1786 0 2 0 As a PI my take is that there's a yield on offer of 7.5% in a life insurance business currently earning next to nothing on the investments its required to hold. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Makinbuks why 'currently earning nothing...'? Could you please explain? I hold here.
brucie5
15/4/2021
09:29
Holding sizeable position in LGEN ( ex div today) and PHNX But do like the sector generally
panshanger1
15/4/2021
09:24
Panmures have put a note out today noting that CSNs current 40% discount to NAV is where it was valued at the peak of the financial crisis.
janhar
15/4/2021
08:36
Surprised this has come back to this level in a generally rising market Back on the watch list !
panshanger1
13/4/2021
11:47
Fair enough, the current sluggishness could well be in anticipation of a sizeable sale. As a PI my take is that there's a yield on offer of 7.5% in a life insurance business currently earning next to nothing on the investments its required to hold. If I was retiring I'd put a sizeable chunk here, take 3.5% per anum income and reinvest 4%. I find it difficult to see an economic scenario where that income wouldn't grow in line with inflation over the next (say) 20 years while protecting my capital in real terms as well. It does surprise me there aren't legions of people doing that and pushing the price back towards £4
makinbuks
09/4/2021
18:49
Anything below say, 280 ish. I'm not saying there isn't value at current levels but I'm happy to wait and see if SLA continue their sell down.
frazboy
09/4/2021
15:59
And as we are around 50p below the immediate pre pandemic price today what would you consider a sensible opportunity?
makinbuks
09/4/2021
12:31
I'm interested to see if SLA continue their sell down now the results are out of the way. Have exited my position but will re-enter if given a sensible opportunity.
frazboy
08/4/2021
17:33
Brucie - I think it's an academic discussion which is interesting! As for CSN, the term "annuity/annuities" occurs just three times in the final results RNS. It's clearly not material.
jonwig
08/4/2021
17:02
Is this a discussion about whether CSN has a long term future?
brucie5
08/4/2021
16:20
There are a lot of warnings about uncertainty still put out with drawdown. Which are valid. But if you spent your whole working life being told to add funds to your pension, that is the "best" place as you get tax relief and you get stock market sized gains..... Why should the risk be any greater after retirement? Sure investments can have a bad year, but you could be just as long retired , so the good years balance out the bad. Simple discipline , withdrawing the average annual return should mean that over time you have your cake (still) and eat it. After all the years of investment growth are likely to have far outweighed and funds put into the scheme.
fenners66
08/4/2021
12:42
I think there is case for using annuities with OAP for a base level of income while Leaving pensions invested (think Inheritance tax avoidance) and using ISAs for flexible investment returns - the ISAs will ultimately be subject to Inheritance tax. I used £350k that way and have £1M still invested in my pension- I have £1.8M Fixed protection and £1M in my ISA.
bscuit
08/4/2021
12:26
It's fear of the alternatives - many people will sacrifice higher returns for the certainty of a monthly cheque There will always be a demand for annuities; just not the same as was when it was compulsory
williamcooper104
08/4/2021
11:33
Not sure I agree, maybe for people on here but the bulk of the population will know no different. Most people save through their pension pot for retirement They have no idea about alternatives I had a small personal pension which I cashed in over 2 years with Aviva It was going to be worth £4 a month when I got to retirement age I worked it out that to get anything out of it I would have to live to 104 pointless to a trader like me but to others who don't know what to do, they have no choice but to take an annuity
ntv
08/4/2021
11:18
Gone XD well today
janhar
08/4/2021
10:47
That's a great point Fenners. There was a time when the mortgage market was dominated by endowment policies. I think individual annuities will become similarly rare over the next decade.
makinbuks
07/4/2021
17:05
Go check the tax treatment of pension funds - perhaps that might help you. I am quite happy investing in the companies that earn from annuities but will never buy an annuity myself. Its like bookmakers - you invest in them (e.g.Entain) , not gamble inside them...
fenners66
07/4/2021
16:50
fenners66 7 Apr '21 - 16:40 - 1767 of 1769 They have actuaries who assess just how many years you are likely to live and pay out some of the fund over time designed to make a profit despite low interest from the gilts they are supposed to invest in. If you die soon (as the example used above) this will be before their break even point no doubt. And if you live longer... Alternatively you remain invested in the stock market - a vehicle that was fit for purpose to create the pension fund in the first place - and start taking an income from this. An assumption could be that you take 4 % pa and still keep the pension fund. But you take on the mortality risk (plus what if you go gaga?). Should you die soon the fund gets passed on potentially tax free to your airs NOT the annuity company.... Actually "passed on" to the annuity pooled investment fund... Not arguing FOR or AGAINST annuities as such, just pointing out that people have, IMO, unreasonably simplistic ideas about this matter.
pvb
07/4/2021
16:46
The IHT treatment of pensions is not be underestimated
williamcooper104
07/4/2021
16:41
The longtevity risk is only a risk if investment returns are below what's been promised on the annuities That's been a big risk for last 30 odd years as interest rates decline But we are unlikely to see the scale of those moves in future And if rates do meaningfully rise then it's all gravy
williamcooper104
Chat Pages: 79  78  77  76  75  74  73  72  71  70  69  68  Older
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