Advanced Oncotherapy Share Discussion Threads

[igbertsponk] 16/12/2016 10:03

daijavu - of course TW is milking this for all its worth. That's what he does.
But the AVO Board are making it very easy for him, with their continued silence.

[daijavu] 16/12/2016 09:57

Freddythefish.

It seems from what CERN has said that the cyclotrons supplied by AVO's competitors are based on CERN's earlier work and not developed by AVO's competitors themselves. Some seem to have even copied CERN's work without permission. CERN has moved on from the cyclotron to develop LIGHT as a much better means of providing proton therapy. AVO's competitors are merely tweaking CERN's outdated designs and not developing anything new for themselves.

It is also interesting that the product is not actually owned by AVO. It is licensed to them by CERN and CERN is still deeply involved in the development and testing of it. That reinforces the very important fact that AVO is not a two bit company that is going to go away and explains the confidence that has led them to investing money and effort into creating an industrial manufacturing base even before the first machine is fully tested.

I believe that anyone who listens to TW and sells on his advice is going to regret it. I think that TW is largely responsible for the low sp, anyway. He has decided that AVO is just another Quindell and he is going to damn well move heaven and earth to prove it. He is on a personal, ego driven, crusade. I don't think he has researched the LIGHT machine so he does not understand it and does not think it is much different to the other proton therapy machines that he also knows nothing about.

But that is just my opinion. I suggest that everyone should do their own research and decide for themselves and not rely on the advice of others.

[barnetpeter] 15/12/2016 16:31

"The shares are 50p to sell and remain a complete stand out sell. Until this company comes clean the stock is utterly uninvestable. Meanwhile, in the absence of a statement I am not finished with this one and am preparing a Christmas Day present just for Advanced and Serandour. SELL! - See more at: hxxp://www.shareprophets.com/views/25951/advanced-oncotherapy-the-answer-to-evidence-you-committed-securities-fraud-is-not-a-sham-video#sthash.LXwlHnvE.dpuf

[vatnabrekk] 15/12/2016 14:57

They're stalling. Presumably they can't give us the info that we really want, so they're trying to fob us off with anything and everything else.

[freddythefish] 15/12/2016 11:34

The odd crumb of comfort. I particularly noted the involvement of The CERN representative responsible for commercialising technology spin-offs. This of course is vitally important to CERN from a political point of view who (now that they've proved the Higgs) need to point to positive benefits to mankind from all that investment.

I take from this that there is a determination to get this technology into the marketplace come what may. Of course that might be in spite of AVO but given the licences they have I would expect them to benefit in some way (and I don't underestimate the value of the powerful relationships they have with CERN).

I also note that everyone here has an agenda (mine is clear, I'm excited by the technology, backed by some serious people inside and outside AVO, and see it as a worthwhile punt - I'm in for the ride). Others may be here to scare weak holders out in order to pick up a bargain.

Who knows?

[tia1617] 15/12/2016 09:25

I guess no one cares anymore...Another pipe dream outfit where the BoD have spent more time with their snouts in the trough and not on protecting shareholder's assets

[twirl] 15/12/2016 08:12

So I suppose that confirms that the testing is not complete as forecast with no indication as to when it will be complete.

[grahamhacker] 15/12/2016 07:40

I liked the intro stating the relationship between Adam and CERN and the film of the very sophisticated equipment, but thought the presentation itself a little amateurish and not very informative

[werty5] 15/12/2016 07:17

At last the silence is broken. I won't get a chance to view video until later but would be good to hear everyone's opinion on it.

[sweet karolina] 12/12/2016 17:29

...or before a load more e-mails get leaked!!

[vatnabrekk] 12/12/2016 17:11

...or before they come out with some answers and clarifications!

[tia1617] 12/12/2016 16:17

I wonder how low this share price can go before the BOD consolidate it again...

[twirl] 12/12/2016 12:46

scantrader>> Whilst noting your bias I agree that WHEN is the issue but disagree in that I consider the technology and cost to be massively superior for AVO.

Your attention to the technology undermines your credibility. I would stick to the WHEN if I were you.

[sweet karolina] 12/12/2016 12:13

"They asked us directly whether we thought the chances of AVO producing a working prototype are any better than 50:50. The previous lack of communication and schedule delays have eroded a lot of trust."



AVO are using a different technology to that which currently exists, however there is clearly a problem getting the technology to work as expected when integrated into an actual prototype machine. Things that seem to work on the bench quite often do not work when configured into an end product.

The competition at the moment is between something that does work and is available to buy and something that might be better if it ever does work and there is no telling when it might become available. The decision by the Chinese hospitals is entirely understandable.

Getting a working prototype is only the first step. Achieving success in clinical trials that show that the outcome for the patient is significantly better is the acid test and that will not be known for at least 5 years. Clinical results for other products are available now. Hospitals are not going to throw away expensive machines when something better comes along. At the moment there is a big market for these machines, but as time goes on that market will become saturated and coming late to the party with something better is not a great place to be.

The most pressing issue though is whether or not that £25m loan is still on the table or not. With guaranteed sales in place, a lender can see when he is going to get his money back. Those sales have disappeared and there seems little prospect of them being replaced with other sales in the near future, that will make any lender think again. This leads back to why AVO are desperate to keep Sinophi on the hook and why Sinophi will employ any dirty tricks to get off the hook.

[trustmeimastomach] 12/12/2016 12:09

Sorry bad link AVO due to attend 1-2-1 investors forum on 26 th Jan '17 6pm at the Chesterfield Mayfair hotel , registration required

[trustmeimastomach] 12/12/2016 12:00

Let's see if AVO attendhttp://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/register

[vatnabrekk] 12/12/2016 09:02

There are various claims and counterclaims going around as to whether AVO's technology is truly revolutionary and superior to anything that is available elsewhere. From what I'm learning on these BBs and from information on the internet, I'm coming to the conclusion that it is.

It is also interesting to note the following comment on Sinophi's web site, which would seem to support the idea that AVO's system is superior to the others:
QUOTE
As this is a new technology, still in the research and development stage, we are unable to predict when this will be achieved.
UNQUOTE
To me, that would imply that no other company so far has developed a machine using this level of technology.

[scantrader] 11/12/2016 21:33

There are pros and cons re their competition, and most of the research investors here will have read is from sources paid for by AVO .

Eg I think the mevion system takes less horizontal space and is slightly cheaper to build -and AVO isn't unique in being able to replace traditional machines.

Sorry but can't stick around now

[daijavu] 11/12/2016 20:30

scantrader. While it is true that tere are compact machines out there, they require lot more shielding than the AVO machine and are more expensive than the AVO machine to maintain and decommission.

In addition, the AVO machine will be competition with traditional photon therapy machines as well as other proton therapy machines whereas AVO's competion will not be able to compete against photo therapy machines at the moment.

The main difference between Mevion and Hitachi and AVO appears to be that their machines are cyclotron based whereas AVO's isn't. Even compact cyclotrons need more shielding than AVO's machine and need to be buried underground, usually in purpose built buildings constructed around them. According to AVO that is not the case with their machine, hence their plan to demonstrate that fact in Harley Street.

I understand your cynicism but we all have to do our own research and make our own decisions. I make mine and you make yours.

Having said that, I am not over the moon about being kept in the dark by AVO's BoD over current developments and would hope for greater transparency, if only to quash the rumours.

[sweet karolina] 11/12/2016 12:30

vatna,

I think they hit a technical problem a few months back and they do not know how long it will take to solve it and therefore want to keep the situation under wraps until they have an proper resolution and can give some firm dates.

I think Sinophi had contracts with the hospitals, which have been terminated and AVO's contract is with Sinophi. AVO's contract with Sinophi has them on the hook to pay for the machines, probably in stages and now Sinophi has no end customer. The delays and the doubts over whether they will ever get a working prototype at all are not going to help Sinophi find new customers. At the minimum Sinophi want a change in their contract with AVO so they are not left holding the baby if they can't find alternative buyers. If Sinophi can't get that change then they would prefer to walk away from the whole agreement would be my reading of the situation. AVO seem to be pretty hard over on Sinophi meeting the terms of the contract between them and therefore Sinophi are doing what they think is best to undermine AVO's position.

[vatnabrekk] 11/12/2016 11:34

That's how it would seem, Karolina, but upon thinking a bit more about it, now I'm not so sure. Sinophi said that the hospital groups had terminated because of delays in delivery dates, but they haven't suggested that they (Sinophi)want to cancel the actual orders and they stated that they intend to look elsewhere for somewhere to instal the machines. In any case, if they did decide to cancel because of delays in delivery, or because AVO can't give them a delivery date, then they may not be in breach of contract, depending on the terms of the contract which we don't know of course.

I was also thinking that if they believe in AVO's new technology, I would expect that they would want to get their hands on the machines whenever they become available, so they would be prepared to wait for that to happen. I think that is sort of implied in their statement, by saying that they are going to look elsewhere for sites. Of course this is assuming that Sinophi have confidence that AVO will ultimately produce a working fully tested prototype, although they say they cannot predict when that might happen.

And if I've got that right (and of course I may not) then it would be unlikely that Sinophi would want to do AVO any damage by leaking private emails. But an individual might, for whatever personal reasons.

It is, however, a worry that Sinophi have apparently been advised of delays in getting a working prototype up and running and tested, and that we (shareholders) have not so far been advised of any problems or delays. It is also a worry that the (alleged) leaked emails apparently mention first machines to be operational at dates much further down the road than AVO have previously estimated. If there are known problems in this regard, then AVO should have produced an RNS on this issue some time ago.

I notice that in their latest RNS, AVO have given start and completion dates for the buildings in Harley Street, but haven't given estimated dates for installation and start-up of the machine. I wonder if that's an indication of uncertainty on their part.

[sweet karolina] 10/12/2016 18:33

Basically saying what I said in post 2649, but in a nastier way.

But this bit is worrying:

"before I reveal more leaked e-mails"

I suspected there would be more to come and it will not be pleasant. I think Sinophi are going to play dirty until AVO releases them from their contract and leaking e-mails is all part of the playing dirty.

[vatnabrekk] 08/12/2016 23:33

Aimfollower: This was announced in an RNS on 27th October.