Advanced Oncotherapy Share Discussion Threads

[waterloo01] 05/12/2016 12:36

No doubt about that. See RBS is having similar issues in compensating investors who were misled.

[sweet karolina] 05/12/2016 12:34

As I suspected we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. This looks like it is just going to get messier and messier and it will all end up with the dirty laundry being done in public. The end result may well be that the technology gets sold to someone else, but that would be a predatory prices, how much would be left for shareholders after all the fees etc have been paid is unclear, but I suspect it will not amount to much.

The company must have known that the schedule had slipped very badly for some time and kept quiet about it to get the fundraising away. My guess remains that David Evans had seen the writing on the wall when he dumped his shares. If this is the case then those who backed the placing may have a claim against the company.

[waterloo01] 05/12/2016 11:56

They need a complete change of strategy if they are to survive. The wrong people are running this (scientists rarely make good business men, especially when they keep hiring more of the boys from Cern). Drop Harley St (before De Walden/Circle do it for them), stop investment with Thales and either sell the tech to ANO or at worst, once proven (??) retrofit into an existing centre.

[pyglet] 05/12/2016 11:42

Only NEDs been buying. The Directors are too busy counting their wages to buy any shares.

[waterloo01] 05/12/2016 11:30

Can't say the writing hasn't been on the wall and highlighted for many months (and I don't mean by the TW ego). As for directors buying at £1.00, they have not, with one exception been topping up and IMO had to take up shares at this level or they would have had issues with the loans.

[scantrader] 05/12/2016 11:26

gerhart, you aren't distinguishing between the (edit - circumstances of the) open offer to private investors and the previous one the directors took part in. At the time of the latter there was prob less awareness of the deal being in doubt, and if the directors hadn't stumped up their existing holdings would have cratered due to the urgent cash need.

Fwiw I'm still holding a small short here, having mistakenly taken profits on a much larger one, as declared in an earlier post.

[gerhart] 05/12/2016 11:09

One aspect I would throw into the mix here, which doesn't fit with TW's totally negative - you've been conned view is:

Why would the various directors stumpt-up healthy amounts for shares in the placing at £1.00 (before the open offer).

OK, so the cynical might say to cover their tracks and suck in others.

But what about this angle, the significant new shareholder: MK Trust is owned by Chinese - Japanese entrepreneur and philanthropist Miky Kambara. Ms Kambara, owner and CEO of MK Trust, has helped Chinese buyers to acquire real estate properties in Japan with an aggregated value $14bn and has served as consultant for some of the top industrial companies in Japan.

MK stumped-up £5mil for 7.3% in the placing. She must have been aware of the full picture at that time! And, IF, she knew it wasn't good surely she would have just sat back and smiled knowing she would be able to buy many more shares for same amount of money in very near future! (cos share price would fall) But she didn't wait. So why? Are we really suggesting the BOD conned her too? And then they also didn't think she would come back to "shred" them when she found out?!!

Even if you leave aside the directors taking part in placing, which TW always ignores. For me, this is the bit that is particularly at odds with his take.

[someuwin] 05/12/2016 10:32

Uninvestable.

[igbertsponk] 05/12/2016 10:19

This is why the Board have given themselves until March 2017 to produce a revised timeline. Basically they haven't a clue and need until then to figure it all out.
Rapidly becoming a house of cards. I'd not invest at 10p as this will now all be about getting financing (without China revenues) to get a machine operating.

[pyglet] 05/12/2016 09:57

According to TW he has seen emails that put the timeline way out past 2019 trying to get regulatory approval. I know he's not everyone's cup of tea but I would urge you to read what he has to say on shareprophets. This is all IMO but the company need to state exactly when a patient will be treated after all approvals (medical, European law, buildings etc) have been sought. When can Joe Bloggs book an appt off the street.

[vatnabrekk] 05/12/2016 09:52

This farce just gets worse and worse. Surely the company must now come out with a clear, transparent, honest, and full explanation of the whole situation.

[glibgibon] 05/12/2016 09:21

Why would there ne future problems woth Thales? The $ 4M will pay for the production lines. If an order is placed then a part paymemt will go towards production.

[vatnabrekk] 05/12/2016 09:20

Difficult for us ill-informed investors to judge at the moment, there are too many unanswered questions.

[pyglet] 05/12/2016 09:19

Killer emails that TW is referring too need explanation.

[costax1654x] 04/12/2016 20:45

Some people are talking about a 30pence price...maybe,maybe not!

[costax1654x] 04/12/2016 20:27

It looks very bad here.A Sinophi cancellation means no money for us ...future problems with Thales...and a very big placing or some bad offers from banks!!

[leonasdad] 04/12/2016 11:34

Sweet Karolina4 Dec '16 - 11:26 - 2620 of 2620 0 0
I do not normally bother with house broker rehashes of RNSs, the generally do not tell you anything new and just give a load of fluff as to why everything is rosy in the garden. However,, whats the difference between a house orators, house speakers and house of ill repute,, get yorsens blood tested then u can do transparency, self assessment and accounting and law stuff

, whats the difference between a houses orator, houses speaker and houses of ill repute,, get yorsens blood tested then u can do transparency, self assessment and accounting and law stuff

, whats the difference between a houses orators, houses speakers and houses of ill reputes,, get yorsens blood tested then u can do transparency, self assessment and accounting and law stuff

[sweet karolina] 04/12/2016 11:26

I do not normally bother with house broker rehashes of RNSs, they generally do not tell you anything new and just give a load of fluff as to why everything is rosy in the garden. However



Is interesting:

"it tells us nothing new, other than recognising that a dispute now exists regarding the legal, contractual understanding established between Sinophi and AVO following signing for the two Chinese contracts. An uncomfortable complication but, in reality, the only thing the market can now truly accuse AVO's management of at this time, is naivety. And, in truth, a very public legal tussle is the last thing either party would want; given the understanding that the original contracts were composed under English law with numerous detailed indentures to protect AVO in circumstances of non-completion, some sort of out-of-court settlement is probably the most likely outcome."

Actually the RNS tried to paper over the obvious cracks with Sinophi


"The Company notes the recent statement from Sinophi in relation to proton therapy projects in China. The Company believes that this differs from its own understanding of Sinophi's position outlined in a recent meeting with Advanced Oncotherapy management ahead of the announcement on 24 November. The Company is therefore seeking to meet with Sinophi to discuss its position as per the existing binding sale and purchase agreements."

Why is the house broker even discussing possible outcomes of legal battles that as far as we know have not been launched?

Beaufort are right "a very public legal tussle is the last thing either party would want" what they mean by that is it is the last thing AVO can handle right now. There is no way Sinophi UK can afford to just pay for the machines without an end customer. There has clearly been a major slippage in timescales from the AVO side so whereas "numerous detailed indentures to protect AVO in circumstances of non-completion" you would expect there to be similar clauses to protect Sinophi in the event of AVO non delivery. Yes it probably will end up getting settled out of court in the end, but that does not mean there won't be a public tussle for a considerable time before that happens. Sinophi have already caused enough of a stir by making statements on their website, which they know will be being watched for further developments.

My guess is we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg and that this dispute has been ongoing for quite sometime, possibly it is the reason why David Evans tried to quietly dump all his shares and it puts them in a very difficult position if they had unannounced bad news when they were doing recent fundraises. Based on this, my view is the short to medium term outlook is significantly blighted and Beaufort have been sent out in advance to get oil on the water before the real troubles hit.

[barnetpeter] 02/12/2016 21:02

What...three directors now resigned? From this amazing technology that no-one has seen yet?

Still all these er, orders will help.

[daijavu] 02/12/2016 16:06

If the comments came from anyone else, I might be worried but as they are from TW and I've read and listened to many of his opinions about AVO, I'd prefer to find out more before I jump to conclusions.

Don't get me wrong. I think that TW probably does know his stuff. He must do. I am a firm believer in learning by mistakes and he must have made enough mistakes by now to have learned an awful lot.

As I see it, TW knows, or thinks he knows, a lot about shares. He's read the books, put in the practice, presumably made some cash and has a lot of self confidence. The books say that a cluster of directors selling shares or leaving is a red flag so three directors leaving AVO in a shortish time must mean there is something wrong with AVO. I doubt if he actually knows if there is.

What I do know is that he does not like AVO because it has no income stream and it does not yet have a product to sell. It just claims to have a world beating piece of kit in development and that is taking a long time to come to market. As far as TW is concerned it all means that AVO is a worthless investment. He keeps looking for warning signs and is ready to accept any puff of smoke as evidence.

I think most LTHs know enough about AVO to know most of the issues. Many of us are also a bit unhappy with the dearth of information coming from the Bod. However, I think that many of us are here because of the technology and short of it not actuallu working, I would hope we will all reap rewards. No matter what TW believes.

[scantrader] 02/12/2016 15:27

Another resignation? See Tom's latest comments

[twirl] 02/12/2016 12:57

a tad mardy and seem to confuse Harley St with testing