Woodford Patient Capital Share Discussion Threads

[jonwig] 01/2/2018 06:50

Citywire: James Henderson backs Neil Woodford over Patient Capital -

[topvest] 31/1/2018 21:19

The Equity Income Fund is very relevant as I have also said a few times. Capita and Utilitywise are this week's disaster stories in that fund. If Woodford is forced to liquidate holdings in the equity income fund he will eventually have to sell the holdings that are illiquid which will impact WPCT significantly, as they don't have the cash or covenant headroom to take up the slack. WPCT is insulated from sudden moves in NAV as the valuations are only updated now and again.

[toffeeman] 31/1/2018 19:28

I am invested in WPCT because it's one way of getting exposure to unquoted companies a few of which will end up doing extremely well - I for one wish he didn't hold quoted stocks :)

[rackers1] 31/1/2018 19:18

Anyone who remains invested in any of NW's funds needs to ask one questionWhy?

[essentialinvestor] 31/1/2018 17:04

Neil's comments from December re Capita have been widely reported today.

He's had a tough run recently, but this one probably hurts as he went on
record multiple times in support of CPI.

[jonwig] 31/1/2018 16:10

hpcg - yup, won't dispute that. The very real challenge for NW is to avoid the haemmorhaging of money from his open-ended funds. But also, here's the FT from earlier this morning:

There may be some red-faced analysts across the City this morning.

Only two out of 16 analysts polled by Bloomberg had a sell rating on Capita before today, when its shares plummeted 41 per cent on a profit warning and planned £700m rights issue.

Of the rest, 11 had a hold rating and three a buy rating.

[hpcg] 31/1/2018 15:05

I was talking with respect to a company like Capita (any big one day loser really) where the price falls 40% in a day. It hasn't covered its dividend in 3 years so no surprise it cuts it. Sometimes when a cut comes a share price goes up. The market had that wrong. Actually even writing this purveying the myth of "the market" as an actor. The market is the summation of all actors and not an entity in itself. Thus we can say that those invested in CPI were as wrong as Woodford, even those selling down as they were not doing so quickly enough.

The market is never right or wrong, it simply is. People, or the software they write, are right or wrong.

[jonwig] 31/1/2018 14:26

@ hpcg: "the market has been as wrong as Woodford."

Interesting, and begs the question of how the whole market can be wrong! A few reasons, maybe many more:

- fund managers need to follow the crowd and are more afraid of underperformance than over. Even active ones need to hug the indexes;

- most investors are nowadays passive - ETFs, trackers. Af a company is in your index, buy it;

- (a bit contentious) most investors are stupid.

Actually your statement is probably wrong: Woodford's funds have been bottom quartile for a while, and have underperformed their benchmark.

[harveydee] 31/1/2018 14:26

These shocking share price crashes of supposedly blue-chip holdings in NW's other funds (sadly I haven't yet got rid of my Income Focus Fund stake) are just never-ending ... it looks more and more like the King has no clothes and that he was only as good as the team around him when at Perpetual. The Income Focus Fund is underwater, if you take out the dividends paid so far. What a mess. He has lost almost all credibility now.

[minerve] 31/1/2018 13:10

The happenings at CPI are VERY relevant to this thread! It gives us insight into the person that is managing WPCT. His frame of mind, his attitude to risk, his behaviour are all important in the WPCT invest/not invest decision. He is managing 'our' money. I would have thought anything 'Woodford' would be of interest to the astute investor. But I guess not. LOL

[woodpecker25] 31/1/2018 13:02

Yes, in his Income Focus Fund.
Woodford is CPI's second largest shareholder.

[hpcg] 31/1/2018 13:02

kpo - there is a potential derivative effect from the performance of other funds since some of the companies here are in other portfolios. If there is a run on his open ended funds then he will be a forced seller and that can only knock the NAV here. Of course the share price might not respond, but to ignore potential derivative effect entirely is a bit head in the sand.

In addition the companies have shown Woodford's judgement to be suspect. This is not the market, where one can argue the market is wrong and a contrarian approach will one day pay off. Indeed the market has been as wrong as Woodford.

[elmfield] 31/1/2018 12:59

Not quite the guru he was making himself,
In this world we all get it wrong,
But Woodford decision making must be called into question.

[the air marshall] 31/1/2018 12:55

You silly prats! CPI is NOT ONE OF THE HOLDINGS IN WPCT, OK? Don't you know anything?

[essentialinvestor] 31/1/2018 12:47

Tim made me aware that Neil had continued to add to CPI as late
as December.

[kpo115] 31/1/2018 12:43

Oh dear the unsuccessful small-holding-investor-trolls (make whatever acronym you like from that!) are getting really desperate. They're still referring to Woodford's other funds. They are clearly too stupid to understand the unique terms of reference that WPCT works to. And it has cost them for sure.

Not only that but, just as in investing, they are not having much traction. WPCT has barely moved down any further since they started this impotent campaign. In any case I'm pretty sure most of them would be over the moon if their other brilliant investments were only 16% down on the original float price. LOL

[minerve] 31/1/2018 12:30

He is feeling the heat for sure but his rant against short sellers had truths.

[woodpecker25] 31/1/2018 12:07

yup. There goes another one. 34th largest holding out of 122 at YE17. Not any longer!

Plus he's got AZN Full year results on Friday to worry about. That's a top 2 holding in WEI.

Sorry for off topic (i.e. WEI not WPCT).

[cc2014] 31/1/2018 10:37

He's got stacks of CPI which are down 40% today, although expect in his other fund not this one.

Guilty by association though

[andyj] 31/1/2018 08:38

Heading for an all time low...

[solonic] 28/1/2018 12:35

The blokie who rules this thread and "moderates" the anti-troll posters is more than somewhat inconsistent. He requires people to publish only posts that are relevant to the subject in hand, namely WPCT, and to refrain from attacking other posters.

What does he himself do?

His last post does not mention WPCT and has no relevance AT ALL to the subject. He then proceeds to make a personal attack on another poster, namely me!

Such corruption. Power mad.

[diku] 28/1/2018 08:53

He may be using his high profile status to suck in investors money to invest in so called risky sucker stocks that might come good in say 5yrs or 10yrs time...until then his high lifestyle remains the same at the expense of his investors!...so is one investing in his lifestyle in hope the sucker stock comes good?...high risk strategy for joe public investor...

[tim 3] 28/1/2018 08:33

Wort a read.

hxxps://www.trustnet.com/news/787182/neil-woodford-our-industry-is-crippled-with-short-termism