Virgin Money Uk Share Discussion Threads

[arja] 20/11/2023 11:54

not sure why VMUK hammered today but it has followed the fall in OZ where punters seem to have got wind of something .

[netcurtains] 07/11/2023 18:51

out pops a conspiracy theorist. 😃

[crazi] 07/11/2023 18:19

Over the past 3 years - every time a UK bank starts a buy back scam -- the share price tanks. Day 1 the Investment bank IB buys loads of shares and the price climbs a little. From day 2 onwards the IB uses that stock to "weight" the order book on the sell side. Drags down the price over a few nmonths. They buy more stock back at cheaper prices and make their bonus but leave the share price down 20% when they complete. Oh yes there is maybe a few % less stock on the market. Doesn't mean much when the price fell 20% for it...

Look at LLoyds. Pre covid 58p share price Since then record profits every year, reduced overheads and they have bought back and written off 8% of issued shares. Current share price = 42p (after hitting 39 recently)...

Natwest / Barclays etc --- all the same.


The EPS looks better for the CEO but shareholders are getting shafted... The Board don't mind their shares being worth a little less because they get them for free anyway...

[netcurtains] 05/11/2023 07:33

One thing is clear, it is Richard Branson..


Has he a history of taking percentages or is this more likely a major move on the company?

in 2019 they owned 13% - they must have sold most of that over the past 5 years and now they have bought back the entire lot and some....

Interesting.

[pj84] 05/11/2023 02:07

It could be from anything up to 2.99% to 14% but it is substantial and far greater than any recent trades so will be interesting to see who has sold and could be an off market trade.

It could be a prelude to taking it private again but at 14% still some way to go and could just be taking advantage of the current share price and will be interesting to see what happens next week.

[netcurtains] 17/10/2023 06:31

Cool, so possibly another up day? The algos have to mislead chartists (its part of their programming) - but I guess depends on how well they are programmed.

[arja] 17/10/2023 06:22

surely MTRO is a completely different situation ! US bond yields rising overnight recent bounced on T bond chart was just a dead cat bounce it seems and chart shows a clear short and medium term downtrend

[swiss paul] 05/10/2023 15:49

yep not he;ped by Metro eh - its not good

[netcurtains] 04/10/2023 10:01

gut feeling VMUK fall probably over done (relative to other banks)

[pj84] 04/10/2023 09:32

I think its wider than banks with the concerns over US bond yields remaining higher for longer but hopefully we are getting closer to the high point of this rates cycle.

Not sure this latest news will move the dial much but UK lenders appear to be getting slightly more optimistic.

[swiss paul] 03/10/2023 13:31

Banks are a bit unloved in the U|K at the moment!

[arja] 24/9/2023 11:26

hard to figure out which way VMUK will go recently as , when I think it starts to look more bullish, it goes down :) . I still watch this one but usually only trade shares with NO SD as I pay 3 times as much commission on a CFD trade !

[netcurtains] 20/9/2023 15:04

Probably returning back to 180 at some point

[shawzie] 11/9/2023 19:26

flyfisher, whith regard to “Return On Tangible Equity” for those unfamiliar with this statistic there is an interesting article on the Financial Edge website.
fe.training free resources. The article should save me saying any more here.
Thanks for raising ROTE.

[flyfisher] 11/9/2023 16:51

Two points.
Firstly is the decision to buy back, which seems to split opinion.

Personally i look at the business ROTE. For example if a cash rich business has a rote of 25% and it can buy in at ntav or lower, to me that is an excellent use of surplus capital.
If the rote is down at 4 or 5%, then why should they be buying in, they should be seeking a higher return or returning the cash to shareholders, for them to seek a higher return.

VMUK had a bond issue a few weeks ago at a coupon of 7.625% and is using cash to buy in equity which has a current rote of 8.3%. Marginally positive only, so the buy in looks like window dressing to me.

Secondly if you have decided to buy in then it makes obvious sense to buy in as cheaply as possible.

[shawzie] 11/9/2023 13:53

Sp - the article you refer to was published in The Times and I heartily concur with
the sentiments contained therein. I have yet to see any research which shows that shares buyback benefits the private investor shareholder, with increased share price.
The dividend (if one is being paid) following the buyback would probably be an amount paid whether there had been a buyback or not.

[swiss paul] 11/9/2023 10:07

So you have an insight into the behaviour of brokers using the common sense principle rather than the theories of self seeking behaviours?

Very interesting.

[netcurtains] 11/9/2023 09:48

One of us gets paid to write stuff that investors will find controversial / interesting and the other is using commonsense.

[swiss paul] 11/9/2023 09:37

Hmm now who do i listen to - you? or Michael Seigne, formerly a senior broker at Goldman Sachs and the smaller firm Redburn?

Oooh decisison decisions.

[netcurtains] 11/9/2023 09:10

The journalist appears to suggest that boards of directors are run by brain dead, thickos.

You have to assume either the journalist is wrong or capitalism is wrong, because knowing how the USA is, this would generate billion dollar law suits.

I would say 99% certainty that the journalist is talking out of his or her backside.

[netcurtains] 11/9/2023 07:31

They have been buying more shares...
And they are in the top three (banking sector) for dividend yield.
And the price is edging up.

[swiss paul] 08/9/2023 19:28

Hmm that is if this management can get there fingers out. Next thing will be Paul Flowers for CEO.

And we still drift