Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[rogerlin] 09/2/2022 14:57

laginaneil thanks for your response re copper wires, also to others for comments. It seems an obvious application to me, more so than concrete ever did!

[supernumerary] 09/2/2022 14:08

Cotswold - interesting, thanks. The world moves on:

I wonder who the 'leading FTSE 100 engineering company' is?



Tirupati Graphite plc, the fully integrated, revenue generating, specialist graphite producer and graphene and advanced materials developer, is pleased to announce that Tirupati Graphene and Mintech Research Centre (TGMRC), its graphene and technology development unit, has developed a ground-breaking graphene-aluminium composite (the 'Al-Gr Composite' or the 'Composite'), which exhibits significantly higher conductivity and strength properties over aluminium and comparable to copper. The Company has now engaged with potential end users including a FTSE 100 company for its potential use replacing copper in thermal, power and propulsion systems, which provides significant advantages owing to reduced weight. For further information see the IDTechEx report on Graphene Market & 2D Materials Assessment 2021-2031.

[ ... ]

[supernumerary] 09/2/2022 14:04

lag - when you wrote this: 'I also note copper stranded wire you get from china these days does not solder well and seems to have iron in it, probably for cost while keeping physical strength' I thought you were complaining about the quality of the copper. I merely suggested there was at least one easy way to fix that.

As for the coated copper wire, why not just buy the Chinese stuff off Amazon?



:¬)

And before you tell me the VRS stuff is so much better, I would merely point out that this is actually on sale, now. What a novel idea!

Edit: These people also seem to have it for sale: I wonder what the cost is?

[c140] 09/2/2022 13:59

Isn't it far too early in 2022 for anyone to say categorically that this is not going to be the year of notable commercialisation? The pressure is undoubtedly on management to deliver. Every job comes with a level of expectation on performance and delivery. Our CEO job is no different. Now is the time period for delivery.

[cotswoldsparky] 09/2/2022 13:58

lag,

Why bother with expensive, heavy copper. This from 2019, around the time VRS announced they were working with "...the North American corporate research and development centre of a Japanese headquartered company." Wonder who they could have been referring to. Replacing CNTs with graphene is a logical improvement, IMO.

CS

Yakazi Develops Stronger, More Conductive Aluminium Wire Using Carbon Nanotubes



Researchers in California say they have developed an alternative for copper wire in automotive applications that is cheaper and lighter than existing solutions – namely, aluminium wire rods strengthened by carbon nanotubes.

According to scientists at vehicle wire harness manufacturer Yazaki’s research and development subsidiary YTC America, enhancing aluminium wire with carbon nanotubes helps to address the two main complaints against aluminium wire in automotive applications. While aluminium wire can be up to 85 percent cheaper than copper wire, current aluminium wire offerings are only about 60 percent as conductive and 30 percent as strong as automotive copper wire. However, automakers have long sought to use lighter metals in their vehicles’ electrical systems, as current models carry up to 60 pounds of copper wire.

Yakazi says that by adding a small amount of carbon nanotubes to aluminium, the resulting wire becomes stronger and more conductive than standard aluminium wire. When produced via an extrusion process developed by YTC America, the fortified aluminium wire becomes even stronger.

“By drawing the rods down to fine wire, the strength increases further, hardening to a strength similar to copper wire,” explained YTC America director of materials research and development Stefan Maat. “In fact, it exhibits a strength surpassing that of steel.”

He continued by noting that the carbon nanotube material possesses superior heat resistance as well. Whereas ordinary aluminium wire is incapable of handling temperature much higher than normal, aluminum carbon nanotube material is able to withstand high heat resistance, allowing it to be utilized for high-current applications like electric vehicle battery cables.

[laginaneil] 09/2/2022 13:44

Hello Teepee,

Sometime difficult to see who is replying to who..

Slap the back of my hand if I erred -lol.

[bbmsionlypostafter] 09/2/2022 13:23

Hard to square that timeline with all the imminence mugs were being told about.

Speaking of being told porkies, how's the legal manoeuvrings going sj2?

[laginaneil] 09/2/2022 13:19

Hello Supernum,

Reference your comment;

'cvd is rather a slow process - it would cost far more to coat the copper with graphene than to simply add more/better copper.'

Thanks for comment. I was not proposing using CVD process 'per se' just

to highlight the suitability of copper as a substrate to put graphene

'down on' by whatever method is best.

Adding more copper - of no value just adds more weight.
Adding better copper - not sure you can find 'better copper' than copper.


The idea i liked was to add graphene to the surface of the copper
meaning you need LESS copper so less weight in the tonnes of cables
on aircraft.

You also get better RF conductance on the surface of the copper.
You also get better corrosion resistance and hence less degradation
with time of the copper surface and RF conductance.

Cable carrying high speed data e.g. coaxial or twisted pairs would
benefit a lot from graphene.

Also EMI protection and lightning strike conductors could benefit
a lot.

Just my thoughts, we will see how the experts at Rolls Royce etc
utilize graphene.

Game changing in my view..

[kemche] 09/2/2022 13:18

"always take 5-15 years to become scientifically secure and a further % 5 -10 years to commercialise."

So 2045 for the whoosh?

[1teepee] 09/2/2022 13:11

I think you may have misread my post because I was saying aerospace companies would value graphene copper wires due to the weight reduction.

[twatcher] 09/2/2022 12:42

Any sign of sales orders, or is 2022 another year of no commercialisation ?

[graphenejen] 09/2/2022 12:30

Interesting retweet by Versarien plc from Vexon 3D Technologies re space launch technology:

[laginaneil] 09/2/2022 12:17

1teepe,
I guess these big companies that are looking at using Graphene in copper wire don't know what they are doing.
Maybe write to Neill tell him you know more than them and its a waste of time -- ssheeesh..

[mavfav] 09/2/2022 11:42

If I am correct I believe the work with Rolls Royce was in relation to wiring as well but again we seem to have some focussing on a single application and then others trying to rubbish it and play it down.They don't want you looking at the bigger picture they just want to find problems where they don't really exist.If you believe the company is well positioned for the next leg and that could be in construction, textiles, packaging, aerospace, automotive, rail, roads, medicine, electronics, elastomers, tyres, defence etc then you either buy or hold. That's up to you If you don't believe in any of them then either sell or do as the negative Annie's who do not hold say. They will state their position and will flip as soon as decent news lands. No one spends time like they do if they do not have some financial interest For me my position is clear I am holding and I believe this is going to be a share I will be very happy with I know nooothing

[1teepee] 09/2/2022 11:34

Also if the weight reductions allow for electric planes then what is the value of that

[1teepee] 09/2/2022 11:33

To coat the copper wire

[1teepee] 09/2/2022 11:33

Not much point in using extra copper in aerospace because of the extra cost of flying it around the world. It would cost more to cost the copper wire with graphene but over a planes lifetime is where you get the value

[supernumerary] 09/2/2022 11:06

lag - cvd is rather a slow process - it would cost far more to coat the copper with graphene than to simply add more/better copper.

1tp - these are the Gnanomat patents:

All 5 are the same patent application, just in different jurisdictions. You will note it's for a process - as far as I can see gnano have neither applications nor granted patents for any materials.

[woodpeckers] 09/2/2022 10:09

Thanks chillpill...liked the final paragraph...

"If you have a startup developing a solution with 3D printing for the sector, or it is already launched and you are looking to expand your portfolio of customers and markets, we only have to say one thing: the ground is fertile, the light is green, and the stands are full waiting to see your contribution."

[laginaneil] 09/2/2022 09:49

Hello Chill,

That article very interesting, thank you. These bits;

'In addition, the material or formula of the mixture in which it is
printed is one of the MAIN LIMITATIONS for 3D printing to stand out
as a construction method.'

'MAIN LIMITATIONS' links to:



The section 'CHALLENGES' relates to the material used but does

not seem to go into the 'strength' part much - maybe a 'biggy' for us!


I see Versarien not in the list yet but 'Cybe' and 'Change Maker' are.

Also nobody in the material column using Graphene cement.

[laginaneil] 09/2/2022 09:21

Hello rogerlin,

I seem to remember Versarien doing some work with the MOD or Airbus

to put graphene on copper wires to improve something, maybe conductivity

or corrosion resistance.

But I like your idea because CVD graphene 'goes down' on copper

very well.

I also note copper stranded wire you get from china these days does

not solder well and seems to have iron in it, probably for cost

while keeping physical strength.

If China can put iron in it maybe we can make 'multi stranded'

copper wire with graphene on the strands surface.

This is a bit like we used to put silver on many fine strands of

copper wire to make 'litz' wire for better RF performance. (more

than DC or 50 Hz, skin effect..)

Silly ideas i know, techi- no orders..

[chillpill] 09/2/2022 08:37

DYOR and join the dots!