Vectura Share Discussion Threads

[fhmktg] 08/10/2020 13:54

One of the Appeal bench seemed very interested in the use of 'The penny on the bun' argument put forward by Vectura in making a claim for damages ie that the amount claimed was not significant to GSK in view of their international turnover.The Judge at District Court warned VEC not to keep repeating the reference to GSK being rich.BUT he could and maybe should have warned the jury NOT to be swayed in a finding of breach, which was the kernel of the case.It could be that the Appeal Court upholds the breach, but sends it back for a fresh hearing on the damages, or make a finding themselves as to damages.Ordering a complete retrial would be a waste of Court time and GSK could be seen as bullying VEC by such tactics.Hasn't this already been through two layers of court already, Judge only in Delaware and then Dustrict Court before Judge and jury in Atlanta?This is what the Federal Appeal Court is for, acting as Solomon to cut through the game playing and enforcing a final judgement.

[polaris] 08/10/2020 12:28

That is a matter for the judges - who is the onus on to provide the data? GSK to prove non-infringement or VEC to prove infringement? As VEC/GSK had a previous patent agreement where GSK used VEC methods in API production then, IMO, the onus is on GSK to prove non-infringement, which they have not done...

The ruling leading to VEC winning the case did not have the jury present. It was a pre-trial hearing where the penny dropped. I remember posting something to that effect back at the time. If the ruling was what it appeared then GSK had already lost before going to actual trial. It was always a matter of how large the damages would be. GSK might be able to fight the way the trial was conducted, but it could have been so much worse!

If GSK cannot overturn the pre-trial hearing result then they are just delaying the inevitable, looking for an out of court agreement for some fraction of the owed damages.

edit
Looks like posts 8282 and 8278 around the date of the pre-trial hearing.

[cockneytrader] 08/10/2020 12:25

I remember Louise Makin (btg Plc) being asked what she would do differently when they lost the Vistogard case, she said hire better lawyers.

[cockneytrader] 08/10/2020 12:20

So, why did Vectura not conduct the experiments on the GSK product to provide strong data for the court case? Sloppy and lazy imo, especially when hundreds of millions are at stake.

[cockneytrader] 08/10/2020 12:10

Unfortunately, after listening to the case my money is on a retrial. There are two reasons:

1) Gsk put forward the argument that the jury were influenced by the large revenues that GSK earned put forward by Vectura, and Vectura were warned against this. Although they never mentioned revenue again they did infer to Levels of royalty. The point being is that it's an infringement case only.

2) Neither Vectura nor GSK, even though they had the samples conducted experiments on the product in regard to stickiness or not in reference to Magnesium Stearate. Vectura are relying on expert witnesses. GSK are attempting to use this technical loophole saying the burden of proof lay with Vectura.

If you judges deem the jury acted under an emotional response and the burden of proof lay with Vectura, it's not hard to imagine this going to retrial.

[peddlers] 08/10/2020 08:07

I studied game theory in qute some depth during one of my degrees and I must admit it has served me well during negotiation.

Vec - Looks oversold.

[cockneytrader] 07/10/2020 22:23

And for those of you asking what the hell I am talking about with reference to game theory, well let's look at the two agents involved and best outcomes:

Vectura - best outcome WIN

GSK - best outcome RETRIAL

Is there a COMPROMISE position? Meet halfway for example.

There is also a third agent, USA inc. Vectura and GSK are both UK companies so the best outcome for USA inc is of course a RETRIAL!

[cockneytrader] 07/10/2020 19:24

This is classic game theory. Enjoy!

[jimboyce] 07/10/2020 19:14

And just think of all those lovely fees for the lawyers to do the same thing all over again. Some scam if you ask me.

[cockneytrader] 07/10/2020 18:44

And let this be a good lesson to all investors - your most important attribute should be patience, maybe 3, 5, 10 or even 20 years.

[cockneytrader] 07/10/2020 18:01

The court case is coming along, GSK trying for a retrial. Why? It buys more time of course, maybe another 3-5 years. Crazy.

[fhmktg] 07/10/2020 16:07

I listened to day1; fascinating hearing the detailed arguments and impressive to hear the questions from the judges.Panel of three I presume with a majority to win, though usually unanimous in practice.

[fhmktg] 07/10/2020 13:42

Only the Supreme Court after this imho.Then only if the Appeal Judge agrees that a matter of law of some significance is at stake.

[a1ord53] 07/10/2020 12:29

srpactive

GSK already appealed last year in sep/october. Now telephone oral arguments being taking place In Washington DC federal court of appeal. Taffy posted yesterday audio record of first arguments session took place on 5th of October.
So all now in hands of appeal Judge.
How long Judge needs to decide we will find out soon I hope and then we could see when judgement could be made.

What approvals Vectura expects this year ?
Please share.

Looks like market makers want Vectura share price down imo - why ? They sold a lot before FTSE 250 entering in 118-121 p range - nice profit .
So FTSE 250 goodbye soon ?

[pooroldboy55] 07/10/2020 09:25

So are they going to appeal the appeal ?? this could go on forever at that rate.

[srpactive] 07/10/2020 09:13

I think they have until next Spring to appeal. I stand to be corrected.

[jimboyce] 07/10/2020 08:23

When is the result of the appeal known?

[srpactive] 07/10/2020 08:22

I too have been holding skp from many moons ago, but I have
been buying over the last few months.

dyor

active

[alexchry] 06/10/2020 23:04

Agree with you and best, I was a long standing SKP holder and should have cashed in my large profits at the time of the takeover or at least as soon as the first bad news came in. Failing that, I should have sold when the first advair rejection came in and the share price dropped to 130+. I am hoping that there will finally be good news regarding Advair and the GSK case but not yet convinced about the new company strategy, no hope of a new blockbuster to make us all rich, just steady progress at best, I expect, but am holding on hoping for a miracle.

[base7] 06/10/2020 21:04

Agreed Best & our experience has been similar.We should have taken the cash at then time,but we didn't but I am staying with it ,despite the very disappointing share price performance since Results.With 80mill+ in the bank continuing the buy backwas better use of our money than leaving it in a zero interest bank account-unless our new CEO does in fact have a plan,which will involve an acquisition ,which would vey welcome as it would indicate a desire for growth.Much news due over the coming weeks/months & after several underperforming years I want to be here for the outcome-& remaining optimistic that all will be OK in the end.

[polaris] 06/10/2020 19:56

Cancelled the buy orders for now. I need to keep a cash pile for the gyrations in Anglo Asian on the Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict. Not been a great year for me with Black Swan events and poor timing. Then again, in this game, it can all turn around again in a few months!

[peddlers] 06/10/2020 19:48

Sorry to hear of your miserable experience with Vectura.

It will impossible for me to suffer any long term disappointment and frustration whatsoever.
I wouldn't put myself through it.

The Price is now trading above the 200 moving average on the daily, weekly, and monthly charts so that for me is a decent indication of where the price is likely to head.

I could be wrong.

[best1467] 06/10/2020 18:31

Doubt it this is small change to GSK the Elipta Generics will be be the major worry but since the tie up withaHikma some 18 months ago Zero news.
I have arrived here like many from my SKP holding and I detest Vectura it’s been my worst investment the day I opted for VEC shares instead of Cash.
They even made a mess of distribution of cash instead of just paying a standard dividend they shafted the long term holders.
Any new investors get ready for long term disappointment and frustration from a extremely poorly run company

[justiceforthemany] 06/10/2020 10:14

GSK share price not having a good run past few days and today. May or may not be an indication here.

[peddlers] 06/10/2020 09:22

I have gone long again this morning.

Target 130