Tungsten Share Discussion Threads

[chemistdude] 22/3/2016 08:32

I would take paper in a tung only private vehicle. Not interested in telematics and the rest - very difficult to value.

If he does come back and make a public offer it needs to be a hell of a lot more than 80p.

Tbh all this is making me think pay my mortgage off and just give the rest to EdwardT and leave it with him :P

[bs76] 22/3/2016 07:52

This proposal is not good for big guys How about us small investors?Thoughts?

[bs76] 22/3/2016 07:51

One mored 30 per cent by Tungsten shareholders. The latter would have the option to exit by accepting loan notes valued at 80p per share"Institutional fund managers will not have mandate to stay in illiquid stock. So they have to sell at 80pAnd after this buy back Ed's share will go back above 85%I suppose cash from bank sale will be used in buyback

[bs76] 22/3/2016 07:38

Thx chemist for latest articlesKey points 30% in 500m illiquid assets which values tungsten at 150m or at 120pInstitution funds will never agree on illiquid stock as it will be hard for them to get out. The proposal mean ed truell will have more than 70% shares of the listed property.It will be impossible to short.Assets will be tungsten , tantalum , lloyd's data business .....

[chemistdude] 22/3/2016 07:38

Battle lines drawn over Truell’s ‘bid with no merit’



War has broken out between one of the City’s leading financiers and the electronic invoicing business he founded, after his offer to buy the assets of the company was roundly rejected and disparaged yesterday.

Edi Truell, an entrepreneur and a big Conservative party donor, accused Tungsten Corporation of misleading shareholders when it dismissed his “purported” offer and other suggestions as “universally without merit”.

In what appears to have been a sudden and massive falling-out, Mr Truell quit as deputy chairman on Friday. His departure came 24 hours after a friendly supper with Nick Parker, the company’s chairman, at The Don, a favoured watering hole of the City’s big beasts.

“Don’t be surprised if I come back with a public proposal,” he told The Times in a phone call from Oman, where he is addressing a sovereign wealth fund conference. He said of the Tungsten announcement: “I’m disappointed. The statement does not reflect what’s actually going on. The board have been rather naughty and led me down the garden path.”

As recently as last week, the two sides were discussing an offer by Disruptive Data Corporation, Mr Truell’s private vehicle, for Tungsten assets. The aim was to pool the assets, including Disruptive Data’s Tantalum telematics venture, plus some additional cash, in a new business that would be 70 per cent-owned by DDC and 30 per cent by Tungsten shareholders. The latter would have the option to exit by accepting loan notes valued at 80p per Tungsten share.
The two sides differ markedly, however, on how serious those talks were. The Truell camp says that the deal was so close that drafts of the official announcement were being discussed. Not so, according to people close to Tungsten.

By yesterday morning, the Tungsten board was trashing Mr Truell’s proposals: “Tungsten’s primary asset would be a minority stake in an enlarged group of disparate, illiquid assets controlled by Mr Truell and Tungsten would be transformed into an investment vehicle.”

The proposals were a distraction that risked “destroying value”, it added.
The row is the latest chapter in a rollercoaster ride for Tungsten, which floated on AIM in 2013 amid huge investor hopes for its electronic invoicing system. Its fans, and Mr Truell, boasted that it would streamline and transform business-to-business payments.

Instead, Tungsten has struggled, the shares falling from a flotation price of 225p to 57p yesterday. Last year it was the subject of a bear raid, with hedge funds including Marshall Wace and Man Group taking substantial down bets on the shares. Mr Truell, who owns 16 per cent of the company, quit as chief executive last year but remained on the board.

Tungsten’s statement yesterday was flushed out by a Sky News report saying that Mr Truell was stepping down.

Profile: Edi Truell
Penguin lover, Conservative party donor and financial visionary, Edi Truell is a man with big ambitions and some sharp sales patter (Patrick Hosking writes).
When Boris Johnson wanted someone to get a grip on the capital’s deficit-mired public sector pension schemes, he turned to Mr Truell, who has since spearheaded a plan not only for London but one aimed at merging the 100-odd council schemes across the country.

Another grand plan is to lay a 700-mile cable from Iceland to Britain and import cut-price geothermal and hydro electricity. The cost? Up to £5 billion.
It was Mr Truell and his brother Danny who created Pension Insurance Corporation to shoulder the unwanted pension liabilities of blue-chip employers.
He had equally huge aspirations for Tungsten, which he was touting as being capable of processing $1 trillion of invoices a year, saving clients $10 billion a year — and received criticism for overhyping it.

Mr Truell, now 53, began his career at Bankers Trust in New York. A huge admirer of Margaret Thatcher, he has given £279,000 to the Tories since 2010. He also has donated to conservation projects in Africa and the Galapagos Islands, where he backs efforts to save the local penguins. His holding company is called Rockhopper Investments.

[k3vmc] 22/3/2016 07:15

Dollars, you are correct. Someone does get paid to write this stuff, but you have to take it ALL with a pinch of salt. If it's rubbish that the company is clapped out, is it true that Danny didn't support him? Didn't Danny transfer stares to Edi to reduce his cgt bill?

Never believe what you hear.

[dollarzpounds] 22/3/2016 00:32

'Clapped out company' do people actually get paid to write that sh*t? A company which transacts more payments than PayPal?? Is Clapped out??! Those that 'can' become businessmen those that 'can't' become journalists.It's time Edi backed off the last thing this company needs is this kind of distraction he forgets HE was the guy running the show when it went t*ts up so if he wants to beat anybody up look in the mirror pal! And now he comes up with a crazy proposal his own brother won't back him on? Shut up and sit down Edi Truell you have made a dogs dinner out of running a Plc toddle off and help Boris park his bike while we see if Rick Hurwitz and co can actually get us some of our money back?$$$$££££IMO DYOR BLAH BLAH

[chemistdude] 21/3/2016 23:52

Tungsten is just too hard to convince

Emund Truell has spent too much time hanging out with Boris Johnson. The City financier, whose myriad roles include advising the London mayor on pensions and investment, has just come up with a proposal with as much chance of take-off as the Thames Estuary airport.

It concerns Tungsten, the electronic invoicing company he brought to market at 225p in October 2013 in a blaze of publicity. The ever innovative Mr Truell raised £160 million and promised the sort of disruptive brilliance that would see “the transformation of the financial aspects of the global supply chain”. Instead, despite clients including Tesco, Aviva and Kellogg’s, Tungsten has mainly transformed the financial aspects of the shareholders.

Helped on their way by short-sellers, the shares are now worth 55¼p, even if they did tick up 2 per cent yesterday after the latest fun and games. Mr Truell, who stepped down as chief executive in July, has now quit as vice-chairman, having been “led down the garden path” by the rest of the board. Or so he says. He thought he’d been getting somewhere with his latest scheme to rev up the clapped-out company, valued at just £70 million. But it’s not hard to see why the board finds his proposal “universally without merit for shareholders”.

Mr Truell, who owns 17 per cent of Tungsten, suggested buying the company’s assets and merging them with a bunch of private stuff he already owns, not least the vehicle telematics outfit Tantalum. Why wouldn’t Tungsten go for that? Well, mainly because the shareholders would end up with a minority stake of about 30 per cent in a private business controlled by Mr Truell that’s impossible to value. Notably, brother Danny Truell, a Tungsten non-exec, failed to back him — even if he’s also got a conflict of interest, being a Tantalum investor.

So what happens next? Well, Mr Truell could bid for Tungsten. But even if he tabled a proper premium, say £1 a share, he knows what that would do for his City reputation. He’d be asking the likes of 20 per cent shareholder Crispin Odey to accept less than half what he paid in 2013 — and poor Mr Odey is losing enough money lately, anyway.

Yet Mr Truell is right that the status quo from a board which, apparently, once rebuffed a joint-venture with Blackstone, won’t get the shares back to 225p. In short, a lose-lose all round. That’s public markets for you: a novel experience for Mr Truell, who made his money running Duke Street Capital. If he wants to keep playing in them, a chap as clever as him can do a lot better than this.

[chemistdude] 21/3/2016 23:30

Unsteady Edi

King Tantalus was tortured by being immersed up to his chin unable to drink. Edi Truell must have felt similar frustration as a director of Tungsten, the Aim-quoted electronic invoicing group he founded. The City wheeler dealer suggested all kinds of deals to the board, but was rebuffed.

Mr Truell, who is an adviser on pensions to London mayor Boris Johnson, has now resigned. This gives him a clearer shot at proposing a combination of Tungsten with businesses he controls, such as Tantalum, a telematics business whose name is derived from that of the thirsty mythological figure.

Mr Truell is offering Tungsten a 25 to 30 per cent stake in a private group in return for its assets, or a loan note alternative.

The enlarged group, with a mooted value of £400m-£500m, would also include a Lloyd’s data group and electronic invoicing companies which Mr Truell would acquire to complement Tungsten’s business.

The board describes his plans as “universally without merit”. That sounds like a No. It would certainly be neater if Mr Truell offered a premium to buy Tungsten. Instead, the deal could leave investors holding an indirect, illiquid minority stake in a business they did not control.

Mr Truell has done some good deals in his time. But unlike another mythical figure, King Midas, not everything he touches turns to gold. Regulatory hostility to his brainchild, Pension Insurance Corporation, prevented the company capitalising on the run-off of final salary schemes in the way envisaged. Tungsten has seen its share price fall from 225p to 56p after it gave up plans to buy a big insurer. The scepticism of the board is justifiable.

[manics] 21/3/2016 20:28

That says to me Odey wants 225p minimum.

[chemistdude] 21/3/2016 20:22

Edi Truell, an adviser to Mayor of London Boris Johnson, has stepped down from Tungsten, the electronic invoicing company he founded after a failed attempt to take over the group’s assets.

Mr Truell did not make an offer for Tungsten’s shares but proposed to combine the company with various other businesses in which he has a majority interest, including Tantalum, a vehicle telematics business.


In a statement to the stock exchange on Monday Tungsten said the offer — along with previous proposals from Mr Truell — was “universally without merit for shareholders”.

It said: “The resulting effect of this conceived combination would be that Tungsten’s primary asset would be a minority stake in an enlarged group of disparate, illiquid assets controlled by Mr Truell and Tungsten itself would be transformed into an investment vehicle.”

Mr Truell stepped down as chief executive of Tungsten in July 2015.
He said he had become frustrated with the board’s lack of willingness to employ a “buy and build” strategy of making acquisitions and big investments in the business.

“From a business perspective I clearly disagreed with the board,” he said on Monday. “Over the past 18 months I’ve wanted to make bigger moves that I believe will pay off in the long term but I was repeatedly frustrated.”

At an investor day in February Tungsten’s board set out a strategy to focus on digital invoicing and cut costs, with the aim of breaking even by 2017. Tungsten sold its banking unit to the Gupta family, owners of international steel and metals group Liberty House in December.


Unsteady Edi
Deals look set to remain beyond the reach of Truell until he strikes upon a solid gold idea
Tungsten raised £160m at a £225m valuation when it floated on London’s junior market in October 2013 — the largest initial public listing on Aim since 2008. Shares began trading at 225p but have since fallen to 57.4p after investors have become frustrated with the speed at which Tungsten has signed up customers and its lack of profitability.

Mr Truell, who founded private equity firm Duke Street Capital in 1998, was keen to take Tungsten private to give it the breathing space for his long-term strategy to play out. However, shareholders in the company wanted to keep it public to avoid being bought out a much lower price than the flotation.

Tungsten’s e-invoicing business seeks to take costs out of the global supply chain and claims to serve 56 per cent of the Fortune 500 and 67 per cent of the FTSE 100. Last year it processed transactions worth over $187bn for clients including General Motors, GlaxoSmithKline and the US Federal government.

Mr Truell launched Tungsten in February 2012 with the aim of buying an existing financial services company in a high-growth industry. In 2013 it paid £99m in cash and shares for OB10, an electronic invoicing company that had accumulated losses of £52.3m since it was founded in 2000.

In August last year Mr Truell was appointed by Mayor of London Boris Johnson as his adviser on pensions and investments and is charged with persuading local government pension funds to combine their assets in a Citizen’s Wealth Fund that will invest in infrastructure and housing in London and across the country.

[chemistdude] 21/3/2016 20:07

Aside from being the main shareholder and founder at that, now that Edi has stepped down from the board, any influence or direction his position afforded him has to be largely negated now. Looks like he wont be heading up SE Asia offices in India etc (Goodbye Tata?).

Edi now has no influence on the board (aside from through Danny). His frustration has led to this low ball offer that punishes the rest of the long term shareholders.

Is it still a positive sign as ET knowing all there is to know about TUNG and its immediate prospects including the pipeline of future contract wins he wants to 'buy' it?

The thing is things are looking much more positive under Hurwitz so I just don't understand why he didn't just let them crack on with it. I can't make heads or tails of it.

Its completely clear what the board thinks of his offer(s) "Universally without merit", "Distractions risk destroying value" - clearly no love lost there. I really do wonder what the grand master plan is.....

[bs76] 21/3/2016 17:49

thx k3vmc and manics for your inputs.

[k3vmc] 21/3/2016 17:42

Now, if Edi/Odey do a deal, then start buying at up to 80p on the open market, with shorters trying to close, that could be very tasty.

[k3vmc] 21/3/2016 17:39

bs76

Brian Proffitt, both, as I understand it.

So now it seems that Edi will pay 80p per share. I was very surprised that there was no mention of a price this morning. I am now surprised that the bod has dismissed it without consulting shareholders, especially as Rick signed off with the whole, "As fiduciary caretakers of a public entity,mew would be obliged to take such a scenario very seriously", or however it was that he put it. Maybe the bod thinks they will do better on their own, of course. We shareholders may own the company, but cannon-fodder was never given much choice.

If the Telegraph article is correct, I can see Odey putting in a few calls to Rick. My view would be to sell half at 80p and back Edi with the other half.

If the bod wants to keep in their positions, they better start wheeling some deals out, n'est ce pas?

[bs76] 21/3/2016 17:22

I'm still trying to figure out what Ed is trying to do.

it seems like a reverse takeover of Tungsten by Disruptive assets. The disruptive assets are hxxp://www.disruptivecapital.com/content/disruptive-capital-finance

Was he trying to make some sort of listed private equity fund?

with 4-5 companies sharing the listed entity and also sharing the head office cost.

hxxp://www.disruptivecapital.com/content/brian-proffitt
Is he CTO of Tungsten or disruptive? or both

[bs76] 21/3/2016 17:15

i felt better that at least the minimum bid rejected by board is 80p. So it can only go up from there !!!

[bs76] 21/3/2016 17:11

:) i didn't mean it's a good deal.

I was just comparing with the morning update in which no price was mentioned.

This whole idea that ed was trying to get at 0 was wrong.

[manics] 21/3/2016 17:05

80p? How's that a good deal? Investors had the opportunity to sell out at 80p on the open market a few weeks ago, and Tungsten remained listed enabling investors to continue backing it!?

[bs76] 21/3/2016 16:44

"After this disposal, it is thought Mr Truell intended to offer shareholders the chance to sell out at about 80p per share, compared to the current share price of 57p. However, the firm would remain listed to enable investors to continue backing it if they wished."

He offered 80p and the firm would remain listed to enable investors to continue backing it if they wished.

Not bad !!!

[k3vmc] 21/3/2016 16:24

Chem, I have to agree with you on what he answered to the offers for the company question. Something along the lines of

"As fiduciary caretakers of a public company, we would take any such scenario very seriously. We are not for sale, but working hard to attribute full equity value to this company and may make some acquisitions ourselves as we are well set up to bolt on to the existing set up."

[k3vmc] 21/3/2016 15:17

hpcg, I would never dream of coming between a man and his short position, so not comment there.

For everyone else, it is worth noting:

A 40 out of the last 44 changes in short positions have been decreases. Let the trend be your friend.
B Edi wasOK with prospects, when I spoke with him at the last agm. Now fighting as he's been made the fall guy. You don't have to be an egomaniac, to want to prove your detractors wrong.
C Edi bought big at the £3.40 IPO and has loaded up at every opportunity. Tons of cfds. Sell at a loss? Pah!!
D Bank deal closing, so enough cash in bank to get to profitability.
E Execution and application is all we need to push us over the line.
F Shorts have made their money. They won't leave any on the table, in case Edi has aces up his sleeve.
G Payments processing and cash flow facilitation is relevant and topical, as firms look for low hanging fruit.

Somebody much smarter than me can probably add to that list, but it does it for me.

[bs76] 21/3/2016 13:53

Board should make the offer public. I would like to know which "certain assets" were offered. And how much stake was offered? They mentioned "minority stake". That means less than 50% but how much 30% or 40%.

[chemistdude] 21/3/2016 13:42

Haha Manics just enjoying the comedy of it all otherwise I'd cry :D I'd have paid good money for a ticket to watch the show at Pountney Hill this morning!!