Trakm8 Share Discussion Threads

[sheep_herder] 22/9/2016 00:25

I'm new to this share but the management seem to be switched on so far as I can tell. The video that was posted the other day shows some savy tech insight into future products and how to leverage their camera tech from the recent aquisition. They look like they're setting up a solid base from which to expand.

I think others here who've done more research than me can comment on the market structure, but I doubt that it's a one firm will take all kind of business. I.E. there is plenty to go around. If you look how QTX is taking off without any non-organic growth, then I'd say the lack of II's here is a bonus because you can get in before them. Unless there's something glaringly wrong with this company that everyone has missed, I currenty don't see an issue. I would have invested in QTX before now but they looked fairly priced at 400 let alone now. This seems a safer bet but I'd welcome other input here....

[bottomfisher] 21/9/2016 23:45

SH. Many thanks for your thoughts. You obviously understand this business far better than me.I was attracted to Trak after talking to an unassuming guy at a Trak presentation some time ago. He turned out to be one of Trak's founders(one of Cowley bros). Easy to impress non-techy types like myself but thought he knew what he was talking about. (Cowley bros own 11%). That said, my concerns about Trak's long term competitive edge would be eased if there were a few more well known IIs on the share register.

[sheep_herder] 21/9/2016 22:12

Bottomfisher, what do you mean by IP? They have competitive solutions which set them apart. They don't have, as far as I know, patented IP that anyone else can't compete with.

Edit - let me expand.

This isn't an IP business. This is a system integrator business. You gain an advantage by offering a complete solution that is technically advanced and better than your competitors. You build great hardware that is small, cost effective and easy to install. You further that by designing back end software and big data analytics that process the incoming stream and present it to your customer in a format they can easily process. It must provide a benefit to their business in terms of cost savings.

TrakM8 seem to have a great tech team that are making this happen but, as far as I can tell, there's nothing aside from first mover benefit that will maintain their advantage. It's not like an IP business that relies on patents and an ecosystem to maintain advantage if that is what you meant. However, I'd assume that the quality of a product and the total solution is everything in this area and they seem to be doing well here.

[bottomfisher] 21/9/2016 21:59

I am getting lost in this high tech slanging match. Does Trak have a competitive edge in IP which can set it apart from its bigger competitors or not?

[sheep_herder] 21/9/2016 21:26

Given Eamon has passed on humiliating himself further, anyone else want to have a technical discussion based on facts about the market for app only based telematics?

[blondeamon] 21/9/2016 20:43

Maybe you should cut down on the pints mate.

[sheep_herder] 21/9/2016 20:34

By quoting the names of telematics companies, you've highlighted that you've completely missed the point. It is these companies that would release an app only telematics solution in order to save costs.

Tell me what technology is in an OBD plugin module that is not in a phone? Can you? If you assume it was Trakm8 writing the app so that the software experience is the same, what aside from the engine diagnostic functionality do you think is not available in a phone?

A pint for every correct answer. A pint to me for every one I ridicule. :-)

A simple google search pulls up lots of examples, this being one:



or

By the way, I'm getting old an can only drink 6 pints in an evening so keep the guessing down to a couple.

[blondeamon] 21/9/2016 19:56

Yes man I don't get it. Telematics is just an illusion, TomTom, Fleetmatics, Microlise, trakm8, Abax are all making imaginary profits.

A kid will write an app any minute now and close them all down and become a billionaire. You obviously do not understand what the business needs are for telematics, what's more to say.

[sheep_herder] 21/9/2016 19:30

You don't get it do you eamon. Never mind.

[blondeamon] 21/9/2016 19:26

Ok let's close all the companies and make apps. lol

In the real world:

[sheep_herder] 21/9/2016 16:30

Cheshire,

there are always solutions to this sort of thing. For example, I can get an OBD dongle for my Golf that sets the engine map to an anti-theft mode. Imagine an insurance app that communicated via Bluetooth and only enabled the car when an insured driver was present. Best of both worlds. Doesn't even need to be a phone as it could be a bluetooth beacon like modern keyless ignition.

The technology is available. Not saying that it's the best way but it's probably the cheapest way for an end user if they can reuse the technology in the phone.

Also, your point about the user not running the app doesn't hold up because for the insurance market, the customers are *chosing* these solutions to reduce their insurance. If they crash while not using the telematics, I'm pretty sure they'd void their insurance or have a massive excess.

[cheshiremoggie] 21/9/2016 16:15

SH, I think you have answered your own question re apps.

Driver 'forgets' to keep app running - "sorry guv - the phone froze and I forgot"
Of course the smell of booze on his breath does not in any way correspond to a quick trip to the local pub. A nice snooze in the pub car park afterwards to relax.
"I was stuck in traffic - honest"

...and of course the whole thing isnt tracked or recorded in any way.


Fit and forget is by far the best solution for any but the smallest firms.

For insurance - once again how can you be sure the app is always running? You are uninsured if it isnt? What if your phone crashes and you then crash yourself?

An app seems ok in principle but in practice... Imho not really practical in the real world.

Interesting thought though and who knows - maybe I'm wrong!!

CM.

[40toolong] 21/9/2016 13:26

Correct, phones are clever but for an app to compete against Trakm8 it would require a direct feed into the OBD which would require lots of wiring etc to the phone as the CANBUS does not like to send wirelessly as it is locked down to LPRO.

Hence why people use dongles.

[sheep_herder] 21/9/2016 12:17

Any modern smartphone is more high tech than the latest dongle and has all the necessary tech to function as a telematics device. Ever heard of a 12V phone charger for a car. Stating anything else is purely rubbish. Now, if anyone makes a decent app, that's another question entirely.

[40toolong] 21/9/2016 12:04

I agree with Blondeman on this one. Having done my own research and spoken to some contacts, apps are rubbish. They give guess work data that is unreliable and has no constant measurement.

[blondeamon] 21/9/2016 11:58

Could well be SH but that's like saying a scooter and a Ferrari can both take you to the mall so what's the difference?

One is a state-of-the-art black box device manufactured for a single purpose and on the other side you have 600+ mobile phone types so no guaranteed that you'll have any of the stuff you need, battery will be drained in no time and will leave you when you need it the most. 'Nearly all' doesn't cut it.

Ergo, for 18 yos who just want to get a reduced premium which is OK and that's what some companies are doing. But TRAK's box does way more than these apps can do.

[sheep_herder] 21/9/2016 10:57

blondeamon, that's just not true is it? Aside from the data that can be pulled directly from the diagnostic port, servicing data and battery life, everything else needed for telematics is already in a phone. They nearly all have accelerometers, compasses and GPS. Aside from the pain of having to turn on the app each time you get in the car, there wouldn't be much difference.

[blondeamon] 21/9/2016 10:53

No they use the CanBus and have one of the smallest self-installed evices in the market. Telematics apps are worthless, how can an app know your battery life or how fast you're breaking? Yes it sounds good and flashy but it's only for 18 year olds who want to brag about it. Not professional fleets.

[loglorry1] 21/9/2016 10:11

Sorry for the daft question but is TRAK doing a telematics solution which just uses the users mobile phone e.g. an app type solution and doesn't require hardware to be fitted to the vehicle?

It wouldn't provide the same extensive data but it would be much cheaper for smaller firms to track their vehicles.

I see fleetmatic seem to do something like this.

Thanks

Log

[blondeamon] 20/9/2016 22:16

I wasn't happy to hear the total devices number either as it was misleading at their website at best but in my analysis here I also expected only 3-4000 devices from them. They were break-even at year end so I wouldn't say they were in financial trouble either, just very small fish struggling to keep up.

Still, 800k is still a decent amount. In my opinion, they go after what they can as this is a very competitive and low-barrier-to-entry market.

Roadsense had the Iceland contracts which RM already provides scheduling for. That's 1700 devices or half of Roadsense's total. Trak probably saw them there and realised an opportunity to take over the Iceland contract completely and raise our devices at the same time.

Without looking at the financials of the deal and their books I can't say for sure if it was a successful move or not but definitely doesn't seem like anything big either.

It's the only acquisition that they didn't say that is earnings enhancing and cash generating so it's probably neither. Also a reason why H1 profits will be so low along with the Brexit hit.

[cheshiremoggie] 20/9/2016 15:24

I'm not sure the investors who put their cash into the placing at around 320p are really that happy at the moment.

Also, while I'm here...

The company made an acquisition for £800k - with great fanfare here as we were adding 15000 units to the total.
However, the total is actually 3500 - it looks like the company was in big trouble before being bought out.

No-one seems to have mentioned this little fact.

As a large (for me) holder here I think the company has a great future - but - it doesnt mean that negative facts cant be discussed.

CM.

[salpara111] 20/9/2016 14:48

There is absolutely nothing to stop IIs from building up a stake and given the share price performance over the last 6 months I am pretty sure there was plenty of stock being offered around.

[blondeamon] 19/9/2016 21:54

I wouldn't sell a single share if I were them. It'll be worth multiples in 5 years and they know it.

They had to sell some for the placing and Watkins didn't like it one bit if his face when describing it was anything to judge by. But IIs just had to get in the action at some point and helps their profile a lot.

[knowbodyyouno] 19/9/2016 21:16

The BOD sold 5% of their shares to a so far undisclosed purchaser last summer if people recall. Presumably an II. They were oversubscribed re the route monkey purchase. There need to be shares available for IIs. The shares here are tightly held by the BOD and employees. So without a placement that's not going to happen.