Tr Property Investment Share Discussion Threads

[isa23] 02/10/2008 09:48

sigma shares are fantastic value at the moment. I've picked up a few (and a few of hgpc, for exposure to US property etc)

[jonwig] 01/10/2008 19:19

Interestingly, the sigma shares (TRYS) are on a discount of nearly 30% at 56p.
Although there's more concentration on smaller stocks, the top three holdings (Rodamco, BLND, LAND) are the same.

Perhaps I should have bought into this instead of adding to TRY: never thought about it!

[chairman2] 30/9/2008 20:19

still keeping a beady eye on these
but keeping my hands in my pocket

thansk fr the updates

[jonwig] 30/9/2008 17:59

30/09 ... NAV ~175p, share price 138p, discount 21%.

[jonwig] 30/9/2008 12:55

H - gearing of TRY has been reduced since the market drop started early last year. It's virtually zero now, from memory.

The discount to NAV is over 20%, and the underlying property companies are themselves valued at a discount of 50% and over. As a long-term investment trust they have neither will nor inclination to sell their investments.

[hectorp] 30/9/2008 12:49

Very good j, however, could the Fund sell these assets in this market?
I'd like to see half this price!
No doubt you are right but .. are the properties paid for by cash funds, or through loans, and are they geared?
H.

[jonwig] 01/8/2008 15:32

ISA - quite, hence the title of my thread.

Since 0.6 x 0.8 = 0.48, that means TRY sits on a ~50% discount to underlying assets.

[isa23] 01/8/2008 10:04

Discount now is about 20% which is double the long term average for TRY. Remember most underlying shares are themselves on discounts of 40 plus

[jonwig] 31/7/2008 07:35

Yes, many thanks for that, Cerrito.

The discount is narrower than most, surely, because it holds relatively little in direct property (as do others), more in shares of property companies?

I called a bottom much too early before (TRY at 170, 180p) - now might indeed be closer!

[chairman2] 31/7/2008 00:34

Thanks for that report

nothing on Tax following the REIT conversions was there?

[cerrito] 30/7/2008 23:15

Even though i do not hold shares at the moment went to the AGM as wanted to hear what Turner had to say.
Gross cash now £77m.
Commented that nowhere to hide and the top 2 shares in the portfolio as of now are the same at 308 and 307 Unibail and Land Securities.
On a see through basis 30% of their exposure is in London and 17% in Paris and see through leverage has reduced from 37% in March to 33% now.
They have bought nothing since May and virtually nothing apart from their own shares since end of the last financial year ie March.
Very pleased with a deal they did with Waitrose in their own direct portfolio at the Colonnades Bayswater where which my notes tell me has had the effect of increasing the rental income by 5% This represents 4.6% of total assets. This is the only retail property they have.
Discussed some characteristics of the European property market compared to the UK. Said that the Contient's annual RPI indexation in rents is useful but leases tend to be shorter with tenants used to greater mobility. The annual reviews in France have been all the more attractive as they are tied to construction costs.
Interesting that he specifically expressed concerns at how independent the valuers are on the continent.
In terms of the current market commented that there had been few forced sales to date but did wonder aloud if the banks now that they have fortified their balance sheets with a rights issue will be more aggressive on defaults. Indeed commented that there is little good quality property on the market.
Commented on the resilience of prime property deals compared to secondary property deals.
Did highlight that one difference between now and 1990 is that then there was 100m sqft of office space in construction and the comparable figure this year is 12m sqft.
Saw UK property shares to lead UK property by 6 to 9 months.
Saw absolutely no reason to have an independent valuation done more than once a quarter and indeed seem to think one every six months was OK.
They have £40m of debenture loans of which £25m will be repaid this November. Did not see them issuing any more given their inflexibility and the many other ways of raising finance that there are now.

Did not really say when he felt the bottom would be but got the impression we were getting near it.
Given that on a net basis TRY has no debt and given the relatively high quality of its assets it is no wonder that its discount to NAV at 17% is very modest compared to other property trusts and its downside is relatively limited.

[isa23] 28/5/2008 15:08

on a more positive note, we may be due a special divi once HM refunds VAT

[cerrito] 28/5/2008 12:32

as one would expect a very good overview of the property market in Turner's review in the prelims published today and I would reccomend reading its rather gloomy perspective

[chairman2] 22/5/2008 16:48

inertia works for me

the best invvestments are usually the ones I have left alone

left to their own devices so to speak.

I smell the cordite - is it the begining of the panic
or is this the panic itself?

[jonwig] 22/5/2008 16:47

Yup - I've been known to do it myself ... but my timing ain't always so clever!
(Nor with switching out of cash.)

[chairman2] 22/5/2008 16:43

switching to cash

isnt that called selling!! lol

[jonwig] 22/5/2008 16:42

A hard one to figure, Chairman!

The share prices of the investee companies already reflect all the info about their NAVs and expectations for them.
And we know that discounts widen in bear markets, so is there double counting here?

An advantage of holding TRY is that we buy management's ability to switch - to continental Europe, or even cash.

[chairman2] 22/5/2008 16:36

seriously the discount to NAV must lag
the discount changes on the underlying
investments depending at the very least
on monthly valuation metrics

[jonwig] 22/5/2008 15:41

ISA - 19% or so must be as high as we've seen during this downturn.
Their NAV has been fairly resilient against the sector.

[chairman2] 22/5/2008 15:11

never argue with the market

its right today

who can say tomorrow

[isa23] 22/5/2008 15:10

Is a 19% discount for TRY really justified!!

[chairman2] 13/5/2008 12:41

no change in NAV - but watch this spacefor May

[umitw] 04/3/2008 12:51

Paul this is for you.
UW