Tr Property Investment Share Discussion Threads

[hectorp] 30/9/2008 11:49

Very good j, however, could the Fund sell these assets in this market?
I'd like to see half this price!
No doubt you are right but .. are the properties paid for by cash funds, or through loans, and are they geared?
H.

[jonwig] 01/8/2008 14:32

ISA - quite, hence the title of my thread.

Since 0.6 x 0.8 = 0.48, that means TRY sits on a ~50% discount to underlying assets.

[isa23] 01/8/2008 09:04

Discount now is about 20% which is double the long term average for TRY. Remember most underlying shares are themselves on discounts of 40 plus

[jonwig] 31/7/2008 06:35

Yes, many thanks for that, Cerrito.

The discount is narrower than most, surely, because it holds relatively little in direct property (as do others), more in shares of property companies?

I called a bottom much too early before (TRY at 170, 180p) - now might indeed be closer!

[chairman2] 30/7/2008 23:34

Thanks for that report

nothing on Tax following the REIT conversions was there?

[cerrito] 30/7/2008 22:15

Even though i do not hold shares at the moment went to the AGM as wanted to hear what Turner had to say.
Gross cash now £77m.
Commented that nowhere to hide and the top 2 shares in the portfolio as of now are the same at 308 and 307 Unibail and Land Securities.
On a see through basis 30% of their exposure is in London and 17% in Paris and see through leverage has reduced from 37% in March to 33% now.
They have bought nothing since May and virtually nothing apart from their own shares since end of the last financial year ie March.
Very pleased with a deal they did with Waitrose in their own direct portfolio at the Colonnades Bayswater where which my notes tell me has had the effect of increasing the rental income by 5% This represents 4.6% of total assets. This is the only retail property they have.
Discussed some characteristics of the European property market compared to the UK. Said that the Contient's annual RPI indexation in rents is useful but leases tend to be shorter with tenants used to greater mobility. The annual reviews in France have been all the more attractive as they are tied to construction costs.
Interesting that he specifically expressed concerns at how independent the valuers are on the continent.
In terms of the current market commented that there had been few forced sales to date but did wonder aloud if the banks now that they have fortified their balance sheets with a rights issue will be more aggressive on defaults. Indeed commented that there is little good quality property on the market.
Commented on the resilience of prime property deals compared to secondary property deals.
Did highlight that one difference between now and 1990 is that then there was 100m sqft of office space in construction and the comparable figure this year is 12m sqft.
Saw UK property shares to lead UK property by 6 to 9 months.
Saw absolutely no reason to have an independent valuation done more than once a quarter and indeed seem to think one every six months was OK.
They have £40m of debenture loans of which £25m will be repaid this November. Did not see them issuing any more given their inflexibility and the many other ways of raising finance that there are now.

Did not really say when he felt the bottom would be but got the impression we were getting near it.
Given that on a net basis TRY has no debt and given the relatively high quality of its assets it is no wonder that its discount to NAV at 17% is very modest compared to other property trusts and its downside is relatively limited.

[isa23] 28/5/2008 14:08

on a more positive note, we may be due a special divi once HM refunds VAT

[cerrito] 28/5/2008 11:32

as one would expect a very good overview of the property market in Turner's review in the prelims published today and I would reccomend reading its rather gloomy perspective

[chairman2] 22/5/2008 15:48

inertia works for me

the best invvestments are usually the ones I have left alone

left to their own devices so to speak.

I smell the cordite - is it the begining of the panic
or is this the panic itself?

[jonwig] 22/5/2008 15:47

Yup - I've been known to do it myself ... but my timing ain't always so clever!
(Nor with switching out of cash.)

[chairman2] 22/5/2008 15:43

switching to cash

isnt that called selling!! lol

[jonwig] 22/5/2008 15:42

A hard one to figure, Chairman!

The share prices of the investee companies already reflect all the info about their NAVs and expectations for them.
And we know that discounts widen in bear markets, so is there double counting here?

An advantage of holding TRY is that we buy management's ability to switch - to continental Europe, or even cash.

[chairman2] 22/5/2008 15:36

seriously the discount to NAV must lag
the discount changes on the underlying
investments depending at the very least
on monthly valuation metrics

[jonwig] 22/5/2008 14:41

ISA - 19% or so must be as high as we've seen during this downturn.
Their NAV has been fairly resilient against the sector.

[chairman2] 22/5/2008 14:11

never argue with the market

its right today

who can say tomorrow

[isa23] 22/5/2008 14:10

Is a 19% discount for TRY really justified!!

[chairman2] 13/5/2008 11:41

no change in NAV - but watch this spacefor May

[umitw] 04/3/2008 12:51

Paul this is for you.
UW

[chairman2] 22/2/2008 11:19

Anyone know if TRY will make a pre-close statement next month?

Incorporating the Jan Feb 08 market price impacts
might produce some interesting information for sector
watchers.

[jonwig] 13/2/2008 07:26

I missed that, Ch.
The index might have something to do with it.

Alliance Trust [ATST] will join the FTSE100, but they said it was no big deal, as they will no doubt be pushed out when markets recover.

[chairman2] 05/2/2008 14:40

See that Pru has sold out including its tracker funds

any ideas? or is it simply that TRY has dropped out of the FTSE 350??

[chairman2] 30/12/2007 14:59

European property remains the area to watch
-Eastern Europe - for the really brave

[jonwig] 29/12/2007 11:35

Thanks for that, Cerrito.
Yes, it summarises the problem here, but I'd prefer to accentuate the positive!

• Interest rates in the UK are expected to fall substantially next year,

• A shrinking public sector might rescue us from tax hikes,

• Escaping forced asset sales should support prices. (So far, I think, we've avoided them.)

Higher-geared and secondary asset companies are still at risk. The largest (FTSE100) should be OK. And TRY is one way to get into the sector without single-company risk!