Surface Transforms Share Discussion Threads

[bones] 01/12/2023 23:43

My own view now is that all the arguments on here about the merits of the business and its management over the last year have been truly flogged to death. There’s only so many hours of your life to be spent obsessing over a perceived wrong.

Now that the open offer is almost completed, I’m happy to wait and see how things develop in 2024. Trusting for a smoother operational ramp up while not being complacent enough to think it will all be plain sailing. Even so, I imagine management are paying close attention to getting the business back on track.

[geko5trade] 01/12/2023 19:23

cheese, fair points but I don't think it unreasonable to criticise management on what was a poor presentation. It is AIM but it is a listing and they are accountable to shareholders. So yes shareholders do have a choice but management have a responsibility to them and I think that video fell below what's expected. Clearly a number of people share that view. It doesn't seem excessive to ask that they put a couple of hundred quid into putting something out that's more polished and less stumbling. It would at least give the impression of being more on top of the issues. I hope they are because as pinkfoot says the order book is impressive.

[glyn10] 01/12/2023 17:44

Whatever the company said (or did not say) in the presentation, they were always going to get cained by those bitter armchair experts who could have done a lot better.

I like most have lost a fair chunk of cash but as Cheese has rightly saidly said don't invest what you can't afford to lose. Am I happy, no I am not.

It is way to easy to blame the management, yes the hold blame, certainly the dodgy forecasting should have been avoided. Otherwise they are just an easy target.For the most part the problem has been the manufacturing process/equipment failiure which is typical of new manufacturing processes and equipment.

Some have said that it is very simple, well its not! If it was everyone would be making carbon fibre brake discs and they aren't. These are new processes, bespoke/modified equipment being used with more throughput than before, with the best will in the world sh1t happens, things go wrong they are called teething problems.

If you are unhappy with current circumstances I don't blame you,but constantly whinging on and on changes nothing. Either sell up and take it on the chin or suck it up and accept we are where we are and wait for the share price to improve as it will do. The share price will improve, it may take longer than we previously hoped, but thats life trading on aim.

[pinkfoot2] 01/12/2023 17:43

It’s like listening to Starmer on here-so many bashing the company when the reality is they need collective support.

To remind all, the product goes through at least 15 processes-one niggling issue indirectly impacts on all 15 processes.Think Nissan production line where one point of failure , however insignificant, can cause serious indigestion.

The BOD need to get ahead of the curve on inventory-once achieved, we will be in clover

[fevertreeman] 01/12/2023 15:27

Goldman Supernumerary is correct in his assertions about this lot. Its management management management all the way. And this lot has spectacularly failed to make the transition from plucky spin-off through EIS and to AIM listing process. It really is as if Bundred and Johnson have absorbed/learned nothing about running a growing listed company ove rthe last 10 years as a listed company.

The presentation was shocking given the main 2 protagonists had just presided over a total failure of management - absolutely no contrition or explanation about what went wrong in the messaging/RNS statements to the markets. Explanations confined to the engineering processes NOT the management, financial, and communications issues.

In contrast to the cutting-edge products the boffins have produced, everything else about the company screams amateurism & mediocrity, and this is at the heart of the problem - the company has not developed a professional plc culture in the last 10 years, and both Johnson & Bundred treat s/holders with barely concealed contempt.

The fact is that they raised funds at 40p not that long ago and used large chunks of that to address the problems they had failed to anticipate, and then blithely told us all end of Sept that the problems were behind, and 5 weeks later pushed the emergency button that crated the share price and their reputation with it.

[toffeeman] 01/12/2023 08:59

Given the order book, this is low risk at the current price, because if they don't get things right in the next 12 months someone (probs PE) will buy them and sort it.

[supernumerary] 01/12/2023 00:41

cheese - you seem intent on adding to the farce. The company, and more precisely its management, are not innocent victims of fate as you imply - they brought all this on themselves and us. Particularly galling when they're employed to avoid this sort of chaos, something they'd managed to do, slowly but successfully, for years before their rush of blood to the head.

Your lack of sympathy does you no credit I'm afraid, and your whingeing about other posters is even more risible than their complaints (of which there are actually relatively few) about losing money. You could have trivially solved your problem by using the filter button, while those who've lost potentially life-changing amounts of money due to no fault of their own can do absolutely nothing about it. I know where my sympathies lie.

SCE may be gaining orders, but has yet to deliver them, so whether it's actually expanding (orders, production, revenue, cash, market cap, w.h.y.?) is yet to be determined, and it probably won't be clear for another couple of years.

And thanks for reminding us we have an opportunity to buy at an 'incredibly low price': that was what I thought when they raised funds at 40p - remember that? Personally, I'd trade all the opportunities to buy cheaply for just one opportunity to sell expensively, and I doubt I'm alone in that view.

pf - never claimed I did. And yet here we are, both in the same boat, only difference you've lost even more than me.

[pinkfoot2] 30/11/2023 19:16

Supernumerary-you clearly have no experience in automotive supply chains.I do

[toffeeman] 30/11/2023 17:51

I only had a few quid in my dealing account so sold some shares at 10.8 so I could buy some back at 10.

Presumably I am not the only person to do this!

[cheese666] 30/11/2023 16:38

This board has become slighlty farcical of late in my view.
The company isn't this latest presentation and it's not an accurate way to assess it as if it is.

They have become a victim of their own success. The word i take from this is 'success'. The product is the best and the order book reflects this truth. They are successfully building a significant business.

Of course it's incredibly disappointing where we are but this is AIM. Smaller companies looking to make an impact list here to finance their growth. SCE is using AIM correctly, albeit with some stumbling blocks.

I've got no sympathy for anyone who is down on their investment (who then moans about it on an Internet bulletin board that is) because it's part of the game and I'm sitting on a huge loss here. (6 figures) I don't feel sorry for myself. I chose the risk and have to accept the outcome.

If these issues weren't on the back of SCE being successful in securing orders, and therefore expanding, I'd probably feel different.

We've got an opportunity to buy at an incredibly low price.

[volsung] 30/11/2023 16:32

Put in for a grand's worth

[supernumerary] 30/11/2023 16:12

Anybody can win orders if they charge the wrong price or accept the wrong conditions.

[pinkfoot2] 30/11/2023 16:06

I disagree-the order book is far greater than anyone expected and sooner

[geko5trade] 30/11/2023 12:18

Bagpuss, there's a moment in the video when IM is clearly thinking what the ...!
supernumerary, I agree a symptom not a cause. I wasn't labouring the point. That was the first (and last) time I'd seen it and it's difficult not to comment. But yes I take your point!

[nchanning] 30/11/2023 12:09

For anyone defending management because scaling up is hard , this is a pretty simple one product company . They should have raised the money early enough to get production capacity up and running months in advance of when it was needed . They've over promised and communicated badly every step of the way . If it's completely understandable that it's taking this long , then they ought to have started far earlier

[fft] 30/11/2023 10:50

I would like to think we will get a November update tomorrow or Monday. They need 2.3m in Nov and Dec to meet the Q4 target of 3.3m. That is revenue, not production so more chance to massage the figures by having sold to higher priced clients. Let's hope for a beat.The share price movement in the last couple of days might be people with knowledge or could just be those with blind faith !

[bagpuss67] 30/11/2023 07:47

IM must be going WTF.. She seems like an actual professional and robust. My guess is she will knock this into shape. That presentation was embarrassing.

[amt] 30/11/2023 07:38

Too much joyalty for me given the disastrous fall in share price. The presentation of financial aspects was a bit muddled at times and difficult to follow. Generally the explanations about production issues although superficially clear didn't really explain such a huge miss of targets. They must have had machinery failures lasting weeks to miss by such a huge amount.

[supernumerary] 30/11/2023 00:08

Geko - I don't suppose anybody thinks it was a great presentation, but it's now done so no point in going over it. The real problem I think is deeper - the management just don't have any understanding of marketing, brand building, relationship management etc. They think they sell to the OEMs, not to the end users, so why should they waste time on this sort of stuff? And one of the outcomes of this attitude is a rather weak presentation. It's a symptom, not a cause.

While I can sympathise with that point of view - it is, after all, in a literal sense, true, but it ends up leaving the company invisible to the wider world, including the investment community, with the consequences we've all suffered. It also means they automatically take the inferior position in any negotiation, hence their current inability even to name their customers.

I wonder whether an executive chairman (person!) might be a solution? The role of non-exec chairman is odd in that it has a lot of responsibility, but rather little involvement or control. Most NECs that I've known seem to think their job is to turn up for infrequent board meetings, offer some unwanted advice, take the proffered tea and biscuits, trouser a fat fee and go home feeling replete and content that they've done all that's required of them.

Someone more committed and with a wider business background might allow Bundred to retire with grace, and give Johnson the support and guidance he so obviously needs. Certainly worth a thought.

Goldman - as I've said before, these are not innocent victims of unfortunate events - they're managers and it's their job to control events not just react to them. In your example, did you take orders without knowing how to meet them, then buy equipment that had never been used in this environment, and install it into production lines whose integrity you couldn't guarantee in the pious hope that it would all work out in the end? I hope not, but that's what happened here. They could always have said 'no' to the orders until such time as they were certain they knew they could manufacture them, but they decided to go for growth over safety, and here we are.

Two forced fund raisings at increasingly dreadful prices have only exacerbated the problem - one would have been bad, but had they planned properly and raised more the first time (to meet entirely foreseeable commitments, don't forget) the second would never have been necessary. They should not be let off the hook.

[goldman] 29/11/2023 22:42

I for one understand what SCE are going though at this moment in time, it’s something akin to growing pains. Their going though a massive transformation from R&D to full scale production, that’s one heck of a step to try to achieve almost overnight. The orders have come in thick and fast and suddenly we need a full scale production plant and with the best will in the world you can’t develop that overnight, especially when no one else in the world has ever produced this particular product before, it take time and money.

I can tell you that having worked in similar situations these things don’t just happen. As an example some year ago I worked for very well known company who manufactured catalysts that went into the production of anything from clean water to petroleum products, paints, agriculture, fertilisers etc not to mention playing a part in the manufacturing of Ev batteries and many other materials. Machinery was purchased that had originally been developed for the production of pharmaceuticals and then modified to suit our own needs, this could take months or even years to achieve and in some cases would be a continuous process of achieving better production from that machine or multiple machines. There is seldom an end point to improving development and production so that’s where SCE is right now, all the creases will be ironed out and a smooth production line will be created albeit over a matter of time, how long we can’t exactly say but it will happen you can be assured of that.
We have orders from customers who are committed to fitting SCE components to their cars and come hell or high water I truly believe that SCE will deliver. Needless to say I’ll be taking up all my allocation plus some if funds allow.

[geko5trade] 29/11/2023 19:16

jerarnie1, thanks for the link. I think! I almost wished I hadn't watched it! It's not so much the content per se and it depends on what the purpose of the presentation is. If it's to woo new investors or institutions then shoot me. If it's just meant to be a boring no one really cares update for long suffering shareholders then whatever.

1) Cut the damn thing in half, at least. Then cut it again.

2) Spend a few hundred quid on some decent mics, some lights, a half decent camera and someone that knows how to use it. They'll also rearrange the background so that the brake disks don't look like a couple of comical ears sticking out the sides of each of their heads! I didn't expect humour but we don't want people to laugh at them. IM was the only one who had a primitive light on her and she had to rescue DB a couple of times before the audience started throwing tomatoes.

3) I don't think people expect american smooth but by Christ a few presentation skills wouldn't go amiss. The opening shot with KJ practically in monochrome with a blank look and his mouth hanging open really set the tone. And what a tone.
If you could address a few very basic issues then at least in the edit you could white balance it and have something half decent. These days it really doesn't cost a lot and there's plenty of out of work camera and edit guys who wouldn't charge much.

As I say depends what the purpose is. If it's to make it so drab that people leave or fall asleep so they stop listening then ok. I know I did. If the purpose is to project a dynamic young company at the cutting edge then...

Pinkfoot I have read your post re what you want from management and I understand where you're coming from re solid and boring but would a little bit of presentation do any harm?

Rant over others may disagree.

[jerarnie1] 29/11/2023 13:09

For those who missed it, or want to re-watch the Hardman Talks OO videohttps://youtu.be/FWWNhGPfrds

[amt] 28/11/2023 10:11

Cheese666 I checked back and realise I misread the word years ahead, as year ahead. Thanks for pointing that out. Anyway they have enough work to be going on with and will need to prove a big uplift in production before I suspect any new contracts announced.
It's going to be a nerve racking 6 months ahead. Failure is not an option.

[robinbell] 28/11/2023 07:57

Doesn't mention SCE by name but an interesting read. https://www.hwmastonmartin.co.uk/blog/aston-martin-valkyrie-brakes/?fbclid=IwAR0tCXvZ1CXWER6uF1VB35ej15j2TdNy0cZlb8niJbVAlPqN-QuuXHQyUHI_aem_AV9svGHtzXe5YQtNrJ0lkjoYKNqujyKRRpo69gLEGz1TSfV7Dt7YcdrMisl51s9jvlM