S & U Share Discussion Threads

[mick p] 13/8/2003 14:03

11000 buy today at 448, might explain the lack of available shares recently?

[ydderf] 23/7/2003 14:30

looks like they are going to drift up now, on small volume, i was only able to buy smidgens in the past few days.........

[jeffian] 02/7/2003 11:16

Fred, (you're spending an awful lot of time here for a chap who's supposed to have buzzed off to citybull!)

Like one of those analogies for optimists/pessimists (you know, "glass half full/empty"), one man's "buying opportunity" is another man's falling share price!

Regards, Ian

[ydderf] 02/7/2003 09:03

lol.......bought 2500 @390, peeps are selling because other peeps are selling because they they think that other peeps are not peeps but 'in the know' sellers and so they are selling etc etc

meanwhile, thank you very much for letting me buy a single figure p/e 8% yield stock.........

[ydderf] 01/7/2003 13:20

Addressing shareholders at the Annual General Meeting of consumer credit and
vehicle finance group S & U PLC held today (June) in Warwickshire, Chairman Mr Derek
Coombs said:

"I will not anticipate the half year results but the full year should show some
improvement."

[ydderf] 25/6/2003 08:41

its on days like these that you should be tickling a few from the market maskers within the spread imho............

[ydderf] 16/6/2003 14:54

lololol well, well, the shares were 410-28 and i bid 420 for 2500, first they said no, and offered them to me for 423, i said 420, and a few minutes later i got them for 420, i notice someone just sold 500 for 412.25, on the machine presumably, i'll keep buying them down now, if i get the chance, the share is so thinly traded, its a virtual matched bargain system! lololol

[jeffian] 06/6/2003 00:27

Hi Fred!
Yes, it was a bit downbeat, wasn't it? I wonder if this is Coombsy's new style - he was a bit inclined to overpromise and underdeliver before - or whether we really are in for another quiet year. Never mind - I can live off the divi!

Anyway, I thought you were off to citybull - for all of 5 minutes as it turned out. Bored and lonely over there?!

8-)

Regards, Ian

[ydderf] 06/6/2003 00:19

silly billies.......you did nothing!

[fastbuck] 22/3/2003 10:29

Can anyone explain how they make money in the P&L but don't generate cash profits year on year?

Where does all the cash go?

2001
Profit Before Tax £5.3m
Cash flow from operations -£1.6m
Finance, Dividends, Tax -£5.7m
Capex -£0.5m
Cash outflow -£7.9

2002
Profit Before Tax £6.4m
Cash flow from operations £1.7m
Finance, Dividends, Tax -£6.5m
Capex -£0.6m
Cash outflow -£5.4

Why do they increase their bank borrowings to pay for the tax bill and dividends. Isn't a profitable company supposed to generate cash for shareholder not debt. Paper profits are useless unless they are turned into profits.

I have no current interest in this company but may consider taking a short position in the company once this market falls back and the market starts to focus on the bad debt the banks & other financial operators have got on their books.

[jeffian] 07/3/2003 00:32

Interesting that SUS remains in the doldrums and unmoved by today's excellent figures from Cattles. Maybe the market is wary of another of Chairman Coombs' infamous 'Trading Statements'! SUS results for the year to Jan 2003 normally come out during April; although the December trading statement indicated that these would be 'flat' due to the fraud losses etc., a lot will hang on comments regarding current trading and outlook for 2003/4. Can't wait!

Regards, Ian

[jeffian] 04/2/2003 16:54

Tony Breen,
You're a master of hindsight; sell at the top, buy in at the bottom - how do you do it? I don't know, but I know you only tell us all about it afterwards! Hope all is well in Fantasy Land.

Regards, Ian

[ydderf] 04/2/2003 13:53

against the market, how they power ahead........filled up now, over to you!

[ydderf] 19/1/2003 19:06

creeping up, and i've been sneaking a few back, here and there........ssshshhhh - you ain't seen me, right?

[ben franklin] 12/12/2002 16:21

I get the impression from the statement that the fraud might have been bigger than originally announced. The FD retired recently and I don't think they've announced a replacement. This company is more than a little insular at the best of times and you have to wonder who has been investigating the fraud. So perhaps the full extent is only now coming to light.

I like this company and the market it operates in but I got spooked about buying when the fraud was announced. When fraud happens it is actually very hard to be certain immediately that you understand its full extent and that you've covered all the angles. This wouldn't be the first one where the full pain takes a while to uncover and report.

Unless there's been something massively wrong going on, this stock could easily be a really good investment again in a year or so. But to be confident I'd want to know the external auditors had had a good look, see from the annual report that all was resolved, see progress in the next interims, and see a new, high quality FD appointed from outside the company.

Ian's posting is dead right. Mr Coombs' reputation and credibility is getting tarnished by his own over-optimistic statements.

Probably a very good business, but surely one to watch rather than buy until it's clear it's stabilised and back on a growth track.

Ben

[mick p] 12/12/2002 11:16

Freddy,

Any share that takes a tanking on no news is one to be wary of......

Are you trying to tell me the trade action of the past few days is not related to this mornings trading statement?

Freddy.....I hope you have sat on your hands so far, this would be a difficult share to average up or down in at the mo, esp with this spread.

Don't count on the final divi as a cert either, not in this game.....

Take care

I am waiting to add

A spooked idiot muppet (who will add cheaper than you)

[jeffian] 12/12/2002 10:15

Oh dear, Fred! Slightly unfortunate timing of your post given the 'trading statement' a few hours later. Well looking at the movement in the price in the few days leading up to this which I highlighted in post 184 "the old-chestnut of conspiracies and institutionas 'in the know'etc" (sic) appears to be spot on.

Any road up, the area of your confidence over which I would place the biggest question mark is whether this is actually a "growth" share. I like companies which outperform expectations but Chairman Coombs looks as if he is getting into the bad habit of raising expectations, then failing to meet them - a surefire recipe for a hammering in any market. He was overoptimistic in his bullish statement at the end of last year; he produced flat interims and worrying news (although not to you, apparently) that they had suffered fraud at a level sufficient to impact the results; now he reports a downturn in the core business and the rather weak "probability" that they will maintain the divi before returning to the "growth" track next year. Oh yeah? We'll see, but I'm beginning to doubt that Mr. Coombs' statements are a reliable guide to the likely outcome.

Regards, Ian

[cwa1] 12/12/2002 08:12

Trading warning just released :-((

Not the worst one ever but will worry the market....

"S&U PLC

Providers of Consumer Credit and Motor Finance


S&U PREDICTS FULL-YEAR RESULTS MARGINALLY LOWER
BUT RETURN TO GROWTH TREND IN PROFITABILITY IN 2003


S&U PLC, the consumer and motor finance provider, today announce that current
trends on bad debt provisioning would see a shortfall in profitability in part
of its home credit division for the year ending 31st January, 2003 compared to
the record figures of a year ago.

After three years of record profit increases exceptional losses in the London
operation due to the fraud reported there in the Interim Statement indicate a
reduction in profitability this year in the region of 10% against last year's
profit of £9.2 million.

Nevertheless profits are likely to result in a generally satisfactory year; the
Balance Sheet remains strong and Group indebtedness is improving. The problems
in London have now been rectified by significant management and personnel
changes and their effect will be confined to the current financial year. Growth
will therefore resume next year.

It is probable that the Group's final dividend would be maintained at last
year's level."

[ydderf] 12/12/2002 05:02

the decline is simply market masker responses to try to STOP a little selling, actually there is no real market for these shares, i sold five thou a couple of days ago at 415 when the price was 420-35 and this precipatated a pric dropped of 37p - reading your ill-informed posts makes we want to cry, the old-chestnut of conspiracies and institutionas 'in the know'etc etc - I have made a lot of money since April last year, in these shares, selling around 60% of my holding between 5.50 and 6.20, below 3.80 offered, i am a buyer again, and while you spooked idiot muppets sit on your hands ONCE AGAIN! I am going to show you how to make money in a growth share with single figure p/e and near 10% yield

[mick p] 11/12/2002 22:02

Interesting move down ....I think pugugly has called this well.

I hold and have added on previous dips but this time I am waiting.....

The following is just stuff observed, read (ie written by others) and my own view on the markets generally.

We are entering worrying times for the markets generally, in fact I will begin to build a series of shorts that will take effect tomorrow. Rather than go into the reasons in depth here (I have posted my thoughts on other threads) lets just say that I had earmarked the markets to tank in mid Jan 03. This may now occur earlier than I thought.

I have read a post from a reliable source (one I listen to here on advfn and elsewhere) advising that at least one large "investment house" has already gone underweight on equities and intends to further reduce over the next 6 months.....an attempt (with others) to control the descent of the market.

Banks seem to be worried or, more importantly, being worried about as to the level of debt esp mortgages.....this seems a poor outlook in a low inflation, low interest environment....maybe the squeeze on borrowers will be caused by other factors (no missed payment flexibility / climbing unemployment?). This would have a bearing on secondary lenders.

Although S&U has a different customer base than the banks and is looking to expand further into the car finance arena I still feel it will be vunerable to a large scale slow down....

Will watch and wait for now, if my guesses (they can be no more than that even after looking at charts / fundies etc) are correct then S&U may become a lot cheaper yet....if not then I will have to grab some on the way back up....

Just a thought.... I have not seen any announcements as to any change in notifiable holdings.... wonder who is selling?

cheers