S & U Share Discussion Threads

[jeffian] 11/12/2002 12:02

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Freddy started this thread on 25/04/01 and look where we've got to:

The market's concerned about the quality of the debt, which I think is tosh. What I'm far more concerned about is that the interim results were flat (after the Chairman had put out a trading statement saying they were steaming ahead) and although Freddy says that this is OK 'cos it's all down to fraud (oh, well, that's OK then, Fred!) the market is clearly worried there's more to it than this. I'm going to hold until the next results but if they don't come up to speed (ex-fraud!) - I'm out of here!

Regards, Ian

[the big fella] 10/12/2002 10:52

Going your way Pug - good call.

[pugugly] 08/12/2002 14:07

Now probaly one of the certain shorts of the year. Sub prime lending review should produce investor worries about all sub prime lenders eg:- Provident, Cattles, London Scottish Bank and S&U. .. Stock is illiquid so (imo) market will not be able to absorb much selling and MM's could mark down VERY HEAVILY, but dyor etc.

[philjeans] 17/11/2002 17:38

Quite interesting that HSBC (one of the biggest retail financial businesses in the world) should buy a huge home credit outfit in the states for several billion dollars- yes billion!

It's a long way from home; the business has been badly dented by Andersens accounting tricks and bad debts are running at over 5.75%; but they still want it for the high margins they can earn and the growing profit streams.

One day, one of the big banks will look at this little gem and see the huge potential on their doorstep; its easier to manage at home; the balance sheet is clean and its very well run and has excellent profit margins.

Makes you think!

[pallett] 15/11/2002 17:25

Down again today, I'm getting very uneasy about these but you all seem comfortable with them so I shall hang on in there.

[mick p] 12/11/2002 21:48

Evening Freddy,

This was the second share I bought (the first was CYH). The ups and downs over a short term timescale do not worry me, as you rightly say, its boring but will make me a lot of money thru divi's while I wait for the growth to continue, indeed I added at lows.

It is better than a corporate bond paying 6.75%, there are a few who would like that growth......which brings me to my point.......how many companies are eyeing this one up with a view to the growth and value......I know its illiquid and family owned but everyone has their price.....I will continue to hold.

[ydderf] 12/11/2002 20:00

sus is very boring - and unfortunately most rich people and the means to riches are boring and boring processes......now me, i'm a fascinating man so its a bit of an odditty that i shoul own a shedload of this company....

[philjeans] 11/11/2002 18:48

Undoubtedly still a heap of value here; results were distorted by the fraud(which is supposed to be covered by insurance - but knowing insurance co's, I doubt they'll see their money for a long time, if at all) and two things spring to mind;

1) Sloppy management which allowed a significant scam to slip through - don't they have effective M.I and control systems in place?

2) This should be a one off and the underlying growth story is still intact - at least it is for Cattles and London Scottish. If so the shares have further to go to regain their (warranted) high ground.

Get on board now while the train is still picking up steam; it won't be stopping again for quite a few stations!

[ydderf] 11/11/2002 10:55

the figures were down because of a fraud which was not expected to be recurring, add that back and do your sums again, or alternatively, don't buy them - i don't give a dam!

[jeffian] 11/11/2002 10:14

Well, maybe, Fred, but it would be nice if the Chairman didn't shoot himself in the foot again! This share has many attractions on 'High Yield / Low p/e' grounds alone and became irresistible when it also looked to have a 'growth' story. Unfortunately, it didn't live up to the hype and the market tends not to like that. In February, the Chairman crowed that last year's results were "materially ahead of expectations"; In April ,the Board was "confident that the company will achieve new records in their new financial year"; in June, he said the 1st Quarter was "very encouraging" and there was "no reason to be other than optimistic about the outcome for the year as a whole" and in September the interim results were - as flat as a pancake! (Business transacted was flat and what small profit increase there was stemmed from an exceptional property disposal).

Raising expectations and failing to deliver is not the way to get the market to re-rate your shares. As a (happy) holder, I hope to see less hype and more performance in the future.

Regards, Ian

[ydderf] 10/11/2002 09:01

....and now it's probably time to start buying again.....imho dyor - natch!

[biggcl] 25/9/2002 00:28

.... also most of the loss is covered by insurance. The company has not made this clear in despatches,

[biggcl] 25/9/2002 00:26

I understand that the company suffered a fraud of about £600k in the SE. Without thiss the profit would have been much higher (4-5p?). What's wrong with that?

[the big fella] 24/9/2002 13:29

I am glad I had a chat with the FD about a month ago - who's sombre mood prompted me to sell at 5.35. The market doesn't like nasty suprises and the shares have been marked down accordingly.

[jeffian] 20/9/2002 00:24

It remains a great income share, but it's rather blotted its copybook as a growth story hasn't it? I would describe the results as "flat" and yet in June the Chairman said:
'I said in my statement at the year end that the fortunes
of this group would go from strength to strength.

'The first quarter's results are very encouraging and I see
no reason to be other than optimistic about the outcome for
the year as a whole'.

If the first Quarter was "very encouraging" and yet by July (only one month after Chairman's statement) the first half is flat overall, doesn't that imply a nasty downturn in the second Quarter?

Regards, Ian

[arc en ciel] 20/9/2002 00:22

...but one can say worse, Andy.

Seems to have gone ex-growth. Much of the minor improvement to the profit line came from a one-off property sale and without the new motor business profits from the other core lending business would have meant that overall profits would have fallen.

The fraud at the SE office is symptomatic of the dangers that lenders face and repayment delinquencies are bound to increase as the economy slackens.

I bought in earlier this year because SUS was growing and cheaper than its peers. I sold my shares this morning for the reasons above.

[biggcl] 20/9/2002 00:16

12:15 Down to 4:10 - yielding about(a well covered) 7% at this level.

[spike_1] 19/9/2002 17:21

EASILY MISSED due first RNS:

NAME OF DIRECTOR: D.M. COOMBS

PURCHASE

7) Number of shares/amount of stock acquired 5,000 ORDINARY SHARES

12) Price per share 410p

13) Date of transaction 19.09.02

My guess is either he is supporting the price at £4 or he sees this as the bottom.

Either way I hope I'm right. I have 4,000 at an average of about £5 so am very un-impressed with the earlier up-beat RNS's having seen today's results.

regards - Mike

[andysand] 19/9/2002 09:27

Average. Can't say much better than that really.......

Andy

[julesb9] 18/9/2002 13:16

Tomorrow will be interesting for this one - and hopefully the Chairman's earlier statement will be backed up by reality!

[andysand] 15/9/2002 15:40

Oops, yes sorry, thursday.

Andy

[westcountryboy] 14/9/2002 21:52

And better luck for Thursday! But Kier is on Wednesday, so I need luck for that...

[andysand] 14/9/2002 10:40

Well, it's certainly been quiet around here this week. Results on Wednesday. no reason to expect anything other than good results if we can believs the chairmans last statement (I do). Good luck all for wednesday!


Andy

[andysand] 06/9/2002 13:16

Slack taken up now. One reasonable sized buy will send us back up again now:)

Andy

[andysand] 06/9/2002 13:10

Cash flow is a nonsense indicator with companies that deal in money. Same for banks since the whole point of the game is to get as much cash out as possible and then rake it back in slowly but with interest. Having said that, cash flow (for what it is worth) will turn positive, but probably not until the company has stopped growing and is ready to consolidate itself.

Andy