Redt Energy Share Discussion Threads

[12bn] 21/12/2016 13:47

Wow, a post from dogbreath that isn't a mega ramp!

[parsons4] 21/12/2016 11:14

I agree chicken01 not much going to happen until people are back at work and the orders start rolling in. For what its worth there was a very interesting article in Money Week on page 15 entitled "Dirty diesel is poisoning Africa" the diesel has very high sulphur levels and in 2013 nearly 20000 people died from air pollution in Ghana alone. On the basis that REDT have a lot of influence in Africa I believe that one of their first sizeable deals will be Africa related . Happy Christmas to all on this site, I am sure we are all looking forward to a great 2017 with REDT Energy !!!

[chicken01] 21/12/2016 10:28

Morning all. For what its worth, can't see much movement up or down till mid January, people all back at work, new budgets,etc,, then it should be upwards. I'll take this opportunity to wish all the investors here a very merry Christmas and a highly profitable new year. I'll be offline now for two weeks, so enjoy the festive season!!!.

[dogrunner11] 21/12/2016 08:54

Can only be reasonable explanation, thing is whoever is buying surely they should have been involved in placing as they wouldn't have forward sold!!!

Wonder who our buyer is and how many they collecting?

Considering market cap excluding placing we are incredibly cheap, including placing still cheap of course, but wonder if something is afoot and say that placing isn't needed.

Food for thought.

[wardy333] 20/12/2016 23:23

A lot of the placees will already be big holders so they forward sell the shares they already own knowing full well that they are getting the same or more at 8p, I think that is the explanation of forward selling.

[james2708] 20/12/2016 22:54

Applied for 1 for 13 in the open offer . I hold in a SIPP so the extra shares over the 1 for 13 I have applied for will be modified in some way as they will be part of the nominee's aggregate allocation (I understand) when the surplus are divided up on whatever rules are in place. Is that correct? I tried to asked for a figure that does not dilute my tiny holding after the placing plus open offer i.e try to treat it as a rights issue. Anyway I will add at 8p with no dealing costs, to my 7.7p initial entry in Feb 2016, soon after the last placing. There are numerous companies that have failed in flow battery world over the years. This is my gamble that REDT is the one to confound the sceptics, of which I can be too at times!!. I think there is a better than 50/50 chance of success, i.e become profitable and cash generative in the next eight years say. I am sure that they will come back before then for more cash tho. By that time I guess I will be better able to evaluate whether they are going to succeed.

[alchemy] 20/12/2016 22:45

I appreciate those posts and , revenue multiples, yes ok.I slightly take issue with P/Es not "taking into account growth" ...faster growing companies command higher PEs...But yes never seen a small company plan that doesn't have a J curve describing its revenue trajectory ...so good posts and I trust you are right , think you will be for part of the journey.Per ardua ad taverna.

[dogrunner11] 20/12/2016 19:40

That's just what I can find online, used to value businesses at some point in my working career so it is a little rusty, still factually correct.

Thing is when taking PE's into account what they don't do is account for growth, cost of growth is very expensive, or should I say cost of new business is much higher then selling from an existing client base. That's another fact.

So whilst you might have a net loss for year of say £3 million but cost of expansion was say £7 million you effectively had a profit on the business had it not expanded. You get the gist. Also a few years down line you have a client base to sell to which is much cheaper and generally easier to achieve sales from than getting new clients, hence value in later years, worth much more in the earlier years due to cost.

It is therefore sometimes an easier valuation to work off turnover, PE's of course will be part of that, but for a quick indication of a seriously fast growing company in a massive growth area that it has a leading edge over its competitors you could safely assume a PSR of 5 or sometimes 10 in extreme circumstances.

Should not be only basis of valuation, but a good rule of quick fire thumb and in this instance would certainly be applied to investors.

Small caps are hard enough to value, one that is expecting to grow from a couple million turnover to a hundred million is exceptionally difficult, however it is not difficult to work out PE's will not really come into it until the exponential phase is over.

ALL IMO, DYOR.

[dogrunner11] 20/12/2016 19:34

How to Value Stocks: Revenue-Based Valuations
The handy price-to-sales ratio.

Every time a company sells a customer something, it produces revenue. Revenue is the income generated by a company for peddling goods or services.

Whether or not a company has made money in the previous year, there is always revenue -- even companies that may be losing money temporarily and have earnings depressed due to short-term circumstances, such as product development or higher taxes. Companies that are relatively new in a high-growth industry are often valued off of their revenue and not their earnings. Revenue-based valuations are assessed using the price/sales ratio, or PSR.


Market Capitalization = (Shares Outstanding x Current Share Price) + Current Long-term Debt

The next step in calculating the PSR is to add the revenue from the last four quarters and divide this number into the market capitalization. If XYZ Corp. had $200 million in sales over the past four quarters and currently has no long-term debt, the PSR would be:

(10 million shares x $10/share + $0 debt) / $200 million in revenue = 0.5 PSR

Companies often consider the PSR when making an acquisition. If you have ever heard of a deal being done based on a certain "multiple of sales," you have seen the PSR in use. As a legitimate way for a company to value an acquisition, many investors simply expropriate it for the stock market and use it to value a company as an ongoing concern.




For younger companies, earnings are often non-existent or extremely volatile. In these situations, most valuations are based, at least in part, on multiples of revenue. For example, these days software-as-a-service companies are regularly valued in the three to four times revenue range (PSR = 3 to 4). This relatively high revenue multiple is thought to be reasonable because these companies have a high percentage of recurring revenue and good margins. It is also believed that market growth will enable these companies to grow faster than other tech companies.

[cheek212] 20/12/2016 18:09

I'm struggling to get to grips with how this placing issue works, so can somebody help me? The company announced 150m new shares to be created which I assume will not be in circulation until after the EGM on the 30th. If it is the case that these shares are not available for sale until they are issued, then how can these shares be sold now?In other companies this would presumably be done by companies 'borrowing' the shares from IIs and selling them, as you would expect in shorting, and then repaying the IIs once they receive their placing shares. However, REDTs top shareholders aren't your normal types of IIs (at least I don't think they are) so who is lending the shares? Top 5 investors plus directors and shares not available to the market are circa 240m so only 220m available to the market. In the last 9 days, I have calculated a minimum of 47m shares have been traded and this excludes the previous 2 weeks of our 100k seller who was selling at least 500k per day so another c10m. I do think we will shortly see that AIB seeding capital are no longer a large holder but I do wonder who is lending these shares so they can be sold, pending the issuance of the new placing shares. I wasn't aware that there were any IIs that held large enough holdings to lend out at these volumes.Anyone explain this better to me?

[dogrunner11] 20/12/2016 16:44

Need remember this is a technology stock.

[dogrunner11] 20/12/2016 16:42

All opinions, if you assumed your rational SXX would be worth miles less.

Potential matters.

[alchemy] 20/12/2016 16:32

No dog that's a tad over the top.

[12bn] 20/12/2016 16:28

Rampety ramp ramp

[dogrunner11] 20/12/2016 16:24

If they sell a hundred million quids worth of batteries and make a loss this will still be worth half billion easy IMO, assuming strong sales enquiries and no problems.

Profits for a new tech are really not that important, more about potential and this has it in abundance with a market place set for expotential growth.

[alchemy] 20/12/2016 16:07

I am bullish, but, there are now more shares , quite a few more and each p rise has to more hard won. £6 million Marcap per p.To be worth 13p on a p/e of 78 requires a million pound profit.We are putting our opex up by loads by building a sales dept.Investment now will payback handsomely but quite when ..... ?The atmosphere through which our powerful missile must rise is quite viscous....Bullish because of the problems we solve , the benefit we enable but installations needed - In volume and with associated invoicing.

[12bn] 20/12/2016 14:53

dogrunner1120 Dec '16 - 14:23 - 10199 of 10201 0 0
Wtf is going on here,//////// doggie is confused as usual. The 6.4m trade and subsequent rise in what MMs will sell shares to PIs at (8.62p) does indeed look like the sell iceberg is cleared. The question is will there be more? My guess is 'yes there will be' as I reckon an awful lot of the 150m placing shares will be dripped into the market over the coming days/weeks. Who knows though,it is back to imo. Watch for clues like the MMs selling shares to PIs at just over the bid again,as it is a sure sign of a big sell on the books imo.

[dogrunner11] 20/12/2016 14:44

13p soon back on cards IMO, must be due holdings RNS soon, eon or Jabil would be nice.

[tech_ip] 20/12/2016 14:33

Indeed it is and despite the placing discount I expect Red to be trading over 10p soon easily.

[dogrunner11] 20/12/2016 14:23

Wtf is going on here, that's some trading and not a shift in price, it is bloody cheap today...

[tech_ip] 20/12/2016 14:17

And immediately they have cut the buy limits and increased the offer from 8.52 to 8.70.

[tech_ip] 20/12/2016 14:13

Never mind the 250k, 6.4 million has just been taken in one hit. Confidence.

[12bn] 20/12/2016 14:01

Another 250k delayed sell is now showing. What is happening is many of the placing shares are being dumped for a 0.5p profit and the MMs are moving them on to PIs for a small profit. When the PIs get sick of buying at 8.52p ish then the MMs will move the bid down and sell them even cheaper,imo. I expect that this will go on for weeks and at some point the MMs will be letting PIs buy at just over 8p,8.02p perhaps! Why buy now when they will be cheaper later on is my opinion.

[tech_ip] 20/12/2016 14:00

You may be surprised to learn it is not a mountain but just a small hill and is dwindling quite fast. I am quite happy to pay up at this price.