Provident Financial Share Discussion Threads

[dexdringle] 03/5/2020 12:54

....and, if I recall, Goliath had to pay many millions to 'advisers' when fighting off David which was, quite frankly, ridiculous.

[superiorshares] 03/5/2020 11:25

1cutandrun
Hello my friend.
A question if I may.
What would be your opinion on NSF as a long term holding ?. I am sure the next couple of sets of results will not be pleasant reading.
I read a little about NSF failed takeover of PFG. As a Layman looking in, it looked a classic David and Goliath to me. Only in this case David lost.
The alternative credit market is not going away any time soon. I would have thought it could grow substantially over the next few years.
I like the fact that NSF has curtailed its lending across all divisions I think that is a wise move . Also they secured that new 200 million facility in March. Corona was a firm fixture by then. The financiers of that loan cant be too concerned.
I am interested
Regards

[1cutandrun] 03/5/2020 07:51

I like to give you some information about PFG as I worked for them for over 30 years before retiring. This might help you with your portfolio. John van Kuffeler was the chairman for 20 odd years and very successful, apart from buying Yes Car Credit. He recruited Peter Crook who was the MD of Barclaycard.They wanted him to introduce a credit card for PFG, hence Vanquis.was born. They also wanted to start up in different Countries. Poland was ear marked and South Africa. Only Poland took off and made money. PFG then split the shares and IPF was born. Kuffeler retired as chairman before the shares crashed and started up his own company Non-Standard Finance (NSF). He is the CEO of the company and knows the business inside out. He tried a take over bid last year for PFG but failed.
I purchased and sold two stocks in April (10k each). Barclays at 82p which was a no brainer and sold at 1.10p, also NSF at 8.5p and sold at 14p. I'm hoping Barclays will drop to less than 1 pound and I will buy back in. On Friday I was back in with NSF at 10.5p and sold at 12.3p. So I think NSF would make a good speculative bet, but be warned. Their annual report should have been released on 28th April but they are allowed to release it later due to the virus and it's coming out Mid-May. You have to watch this share price like a hawk, but if you can get in low the reward can be huge. On Friday there was only a 15 minute widow to buy low. Best of luck on what you decide to do

[smurfy2001] 01/5/2020 12:47

Very little we're talking 2K shares max. I need some speculative shares in my new portfolio.

[wad collector] 30/4/2020 14:57

How much are you willing to lose?

IPF has lost me less recently!

[smurfy2001] 30/4/2020 10:00

Guys might be worth reading up on the IPF results maybe give some clue to the direction here?



Views appreciated as might take a punt here.

[meijiman] 30/4/2020 08:42

I admire your honesty wad!

[wad collector] 29/4/2020 22:50

Well, judging by the 20% share price rise today , the market is less worried. Another £23 and I will be back in the blue..

[smurfy2001] 29/4/2020 13:09

Given the Barclays results and 2.1bn charge l wonder how PFG is performing?

[dexdringle] 23/4/2020 14:19

I've had to filter eentweedrie as, whilst I have no issue with bears, I do object to clowns !

[seagreen] 23/4/2020 13:50

Oh my goodness I expect averaging down will be too expensice, as I could see it returning to £5 pdq as there is enough free money in the economy to keep it recovering despite the educated and well artculated post 3276

[wad collector] 23/4/2020 09:17

Thank you seagreen for your apology earlier. My average here is about £25 so not sure I will see my money back in my lifetime!

[robizm] 22/4/2020 12:36

It could always be worst dexdingle as a lot of people’s pensions are dependent on stock markets. Loads of members of occupational pension schemes have transferred pensions and invested in stock market. I know one guy invested £750k in Feb 2020 and is down 20% already and most have cancelled dividends so no income.

[dexdringle] 21/4/2020 17:37

Agreed. Things do seem to have gone downhill on ADVFN. Lots of foul language and posters posting drivel filled multi messages one after the other. I have do many people on filter that sometimes I have whole pages of just filtered people (the Tullow Oil thread being a prime example).

Have been investing (gambling ?) since the mid 80's and my lose to win ratio over 30+ years must be 7:1 which is awful. Currently sitting on huge losses on a portfolio of dogs (including Provident Financial, Tullow Oil, Lloyds Bank, Card Factory, Condor Gold, Dialight, Hurricane Energy, Marks & Spencer, ITV, IP Group, Metro Bank to name but a few) all with losses ! Hey ho. One day I'll get a winner !

[seagreen] 21/4/2020 16:49

dex 20 years ago the conversations were much more constructive and there has been a gradual deterioation of the old comunity spirit which has led to many posters leaving and other sites being created. I had hoped the recent comments about policing social media might result in a new obligation on owners of sites but the policing of them would be astronomical.(Perversley due to my ignorance I have also been accidently guilty.)

Not often an old dog gets taught a lesson clearly need to keep up to date more with my professional updates!

I would also add the level of proposed dividend initially looked a tad rich but as it is a non point and circumstances have changed and they had made a large loss I shall not waist my energy on a theoritical debate !

[fenners66] 21/4/2020 10:28

dex - thanks also

The Final dividend was announced with the accounts but was - Correctly - not accrued as at the balance sheet date it was not yet approved.

Now that it is not going to be paid after all, there is no change to reflect to the last retained earnings figure.
That is you do not add back that which was never subtracted, balance sheet remains unchanged.

The rules on accruing dividends not paid, in the accounts changed a few years ago.

Of course the company , now not paying out the £40m this year , wants to portray it as some sort of positive.....

To tell the owners they are not getting the promised return for their investment , whilst at the same time the managers continue to collect their salaries no doubt and portray that as a positive cash saving , is more of the same crass we have become accustomed to ... a la we made a huge loss so we have adopted EBITDA as our metric of choice and other such BS......

[dexdringle] 21/4/2020 09:20

Fenners66 and Seagreen. Really enjoyed your posts above. Is great to see a sensible and respectful interaction which is rare on ADVFN these days.

Just so I understand, are we saying that the 2019 dividend that was due to be paid now (and has been cancelled) was or wasn't included in the 01/12/2019 balance sheet ? Or that it should/ shouldn't have been ? But that, as it is now to be retained not paid, it effectively should have been ?

Thanks

[seagreen] 21/4/2020 01:38

The very least I could do and thank you for highlighting the change in presentation which to my old fashioned eyes means that all companies in this situation are overstating NAV, unless they have withdrawn such proposed dividends as PFG have.

In the old days we would have healthy discussions just get frustrated by some of the rubbish that is posted and the aggression being shown between bulls and bears on certain stock threads I had started to think everyone was like that so apologies again.

[fenners66] 20/4/2020 20:00

seagreen - I have to say thank you,

That was a most gracious reply.

One after your original posts I am most surprised at.

Now you will see the purpose of the clarification , in the original question, which years retained and which dividend payment.

You should find all the dividends not paid by the balance sheet date are no longer accrued and reducing retained reserves.

It will be even more pertinent this year as it is now so in vogue to cancel even previously approved dividends.....

[fenners66] 20/4/2020 19:06

Seagreen - I wholehartedly agree with your views on EBITDA

However we both know I was using the post to refer to your claim to having been an accountant .

Of course the posts you chose to ignore are the ones that prove your ignorance.....

adding back £40m to reserves that was never taken off in the first place.....

I do hope you are not still holding yourself out...

[seagreen] 20/4/2020 18:29

fenners66 with regard to your last point I am perfectly allowed to have an old fashioned perspective of what a true profit or loss is and I come from the accrual concept of accountants namely a true reflection of the total income and total cost for the year under accepted accounting principals should be reflected in the accounts and the correct accounting period. Cash accounting is prudent in one extent (revenue) and rash on another (costs).

EBIDTA can be argued to show growth but I would not want you to my accountant if you thought EBIDTA was a fair reflection of the profitability of a gold mine. PArticularly to ignore interest in the case you refer to would be reckless and to ignore tax would be foolhardy .........without having a detailed sit down with the accountant it depends what has been capitalised and what is depreciated or amortised but on the basis mining equipment has a finite life I would boldy suggest you would be a tad rash to ignore the cost as the point of depreciation is to smooth the cost over its useful life. So whilst Internet start ups talk about EBIDTA in terms of growth I do not share their folly, but much more so in a mine.

The comment is not relevant to this board as this is a financial services company and not a gold mine and was not made about this comment.
Happy for you if it ticks the boxes for you but it is not for me.
But post 3253 has little relevance here and I am entitled to my opinion.

[seagreen] 20/4/2020 17:36

Apologies wad collector for being so presumptuous I am sorry for your loss and hope you get it back as soon as possible.