Powerhouse Energy Share Discussion Threads

[lagosboy] 17/6/2019 17:39

Surely even the most positive of you on this stock must be getting a little concerned as despite the war on plastics and the seemingly burgeoning hydrogen economy and not to mention the numerous other applications for the DMG advanced on here that the share price collapse has not been reversed and a company with so much commercial potential is still worth peanuts.

The wider market positive developments and commercial opportunities for the DMG are not in any way shape or form positively correlated to the share price, that is something that you ignore at your peril - Phe is no spring chicken.

As in the bush tucker trial, with the AIM ATM firmly shut the game must surely be nearly up.

[cmackay] 17/6/2019 15:21

You might as well play chess with a rooster. No matter how strong your strategy is, the rooster will jump upon the chess board, knock everything down and strut around acting like some kind of victor.

[linesal2] 17/6/2019 09:30

To discus with people with no reasoning is like administering drugs to the dead- Think I said that before?

[ken chung] 17/6/2019 09:02

Lemmings and mushrooms only now.

[linesal2] 17/6/2019 07:22

Thanks Ken- up today :-)

[deccer1] 17/6/2019 00:31

He's quoting you clown. You've admitted you don't like the arrangement with W2T.Tell me, how old was Howard Whites son and what industry experience did he bring, when daddy made him a Director of W2T? He's one of the people PHE are supporting through their £20k pm share payments. PHE would need 10 systems running faultlessly at full capacity just to cover their current admin costs.They have never built a full size system and still face unforseen issues and risks. Do you want people to believe an Airfix model plane is just the same as the real thing but smaller?Sounds like you're ball deep into this and desperate.

[vatnabrekk] 17/6/2019 00:06

LOL
So, Ken, let us have your thoughts on how it would be if PHE and W2T were to merge?
And try to say more than just "LOL".

[ken chung] 16/6/2019 23:33

"I do agree that it would make more sense to me (and no doubt to others) if the whole marketing and project development function was contained entirely within PHE and under PHE’s management."

LOL

[vatnabrekk] 16/6/2019 22:47

deccer1 (actually my previous post was addressed to nelson, but kind of you to respond on his behalf):

We all know about Howard White’s involvement in both companies, it's not exactly a secret. So why is nelson asking what due diligence was carried out by PHE? I think he is just teasing!

“PHE pay for all the development work and take all the share dilution, and W2T walk off with half of PHE's profits.”

Not true, on either count. Yes PHE have paid for the development of the basic technology and the prototype at Thornton Park, but the development and capex of the full-scale DMG unit at Protos will be paid for by whoever is going to become the owner of the project, which will not be PHE.

PHE will not be contributing to the capital cost or development cost of the DMG unit at Protos.

And W2T don’t get any of PHE’s profits. If they are a 50% shareholder in the Project JV, then they will quite rightly get 50% of the Project’s Net Profit.

Of course I already explained all this this in my post 10244 earlier today, but you chose to ignore it.

“Why are PHE not instead employing some of those 'consultants' within PHE to do the same work and thus keep 50% more profits for PHE shareholders?”

I do agree that it would make more sense to me (and no doubt to others) if the whole marketing and project development function was contained entirely within PHE and under PHE’s management. But, as explained above, and in my post 10244, that would not result in PHE saving 50% of its profit. But it would necessitate PHE having to put up 50% or more of the capital expenditure of the DMG units, and to take a share in the Project JV instead of W2T.

“So PHE give 50% net profits to W2T. That should be simple enough for even you to understand.”

No, they don’t, it’s that simple. Yes I do understand, I think it is you who refuse to understand.

PS: I suggest you read my earlier post 10244 again.

[slartybartfaster] 16/6/2019 19:52

For your short... Yes! Hahaha.

[blewco] 16/6/2019 17:42

Nothing good on television today, nelson, are you bored, is that the reason you post on here. I'm sure lots of other threads would benefit from your comments.

[nelson5100] 16/6/2019 16:47

Linesal2, as I have posted to you before I only post as Nelson5100 and don't hide behind any other name on here
Still waiting for you to post the same until then we all know Warwick is struggling to pump this share.

[linesal2] 16/6/2019 15:58

Steverabet- I think you need to keep the intake going as I don't see where I said you were using an anonymous name?? but I did say that regarding nelson / Jaknife so maybe you were logged in as one of them when you read it.
Keep watching anyway girls as I'm making money and content PHE will make it loads higher in the future in-spite of your gang orientated negativity.

[deccer1] 16/6/2019 15:07

vatnabrekk

1) You say "I wouldn’t know what research or due diligence was carried out by PHE, but I think we can safely assume that the two organisations knew each other fairly well beforehand."

You know very well PHE and W2T are related parties both set up by Howard White. The effect of this arrangement is that PHE pay for all the development work and take all the share dilution, and W2T walk off with half of PHE's profits + £20k pcm in PHE shares (as if that wasn't enough) so making more out of it all than PHE.

Why are PHE not instead employing some of those 'consultants' within PHE to do the same work and thus keep 50% more profits for PHE shareholders?


2) The terms of the 18/1/2017 contract are such that "Waste2tricity will initially be compensated in PowerHouse shares for its fees of £20,000 per month to be issued on a monthly basis."

I Cannot see that changing any time soon, given PHE will probably continue to run at a loss for many years to come.

"51 per cent. of the shares will be restricted until a final investment decision on a commercial project is reached."

So there is a stock overhang waiting to fall onto the market from W2T once a decision on a first commercial project is finalised.

"Subsequent to successful project development, and after each party recovers its project-related costs (including PoweHouse recovering the expense of the shares issued,) the profits of the project will be shared 50/50."

So PHE give 50% net profits to W2T. That should be simple enough for even you to understand.

Basically W2T will make more out of SPV's than PHE because W2T also get £20k pcm in PHE shares as well as 50% of PHE's slice!.

3) If PHE occasionally get some other money upfront to provide planning and engineering design services, PHE would need to engage independent consultants to undertake most of that work because they do not have the resources in house to do it themselves. Additionally, many other SPV partners would already have their own in house staff to do similar work. PHE would thus benefit very little from any such payments.

[nelson5100] 16/6/2019 15:00

Yet not one single successfully implemented project has been listed for W2T nor how many shares held by the chairman?

Interesting question for the board at the AGM, what due diligence was carried out prior to signing the contract with W2T and what projects have they successfully implemented?

[vatnabrekk] 16/6/2019 14:16

Nelson, your post 10237:
“What research did the Aim listed company carry out before contracting to issue £20,000 per month and to share profits?”

Well of course I wouldn’t know what research or due diligence was carried out by PHE, but I think we can safely assume that the two organisations knew each other fairly well beforehand.

Regarding the issue of £20,000 worth of PHE shares per month to W2T, you are of course correct to mention that this is in fact payment by the issue of shares and not a payment in cash. It is pertinent to bear in mind that 51% of these shares cannot be sold on the market “until a final investment decision on a commercial project is reached” according to the RNS.

(I notice that instead of issuing shares monthly, they have been issuing £60k worth quarterly.)

Regarding the sharing of profits: It has been suggested on this BB on more than one occasion that PHE have agreed to “give away” 50% of its future profits to W2T. Of course that is not what has been agreed. According to the RNS dated 18 January 2017:

“Subsequent to successful project development…the profits of the project will be shared 50/50”

So this is on a project-by-project basis. We have to bear in mind that the RNS is simply a summary of the actual agreement between the two companies, and in my view could have been written more clearly. But in the absence of access to the full details of the actual contract document, we have to make do with what we’ve got. Unfortunately the way that the RNS is written allows scope for individuals to put their own personal spin on the agreement.

I think it is probably fair to assume that when this document was written it was on the understanding that the projects would be funded and developed 50/50 by the two companies on a JV basis, in which case one would certainly expect that the profits from such projects would be shared on a 50/50 basis. That is not the same thing as PHE giving away 50 % of its profits to another company.

W2T get 50% of the project’s net profits because (at the time of agreeing this contract) it was the intention that they would contribute 50% of the capital and development costs. It is simply wrong to say that they would be getting 50% of PHE’s profits just for providing consultancy services.

Since this contact was signed, it appears that a number of things have changed. First, it seems that PHE does not intend to contribute to the capital expenditure and development costs of the projects, and therefore will not take a shareholding in any project JV (although they leave the door open to do so in the future if they so wish). Instead PHE will receive a licence fee of 20% of Net Revenues from each project. They will also receive an up-front fee for providing the scope of works, planning and engineering design for each project.

[deccer1] 16/6/2019 12:19

Under the 18/1/2017 agreement PHE have to give private related party company (with only 7 staff) Waste2Tricity, £20k per month in PHE shares plus 50% of any future profits, in exchange for 'consultancy' services.

Note the same person (Howard White) set-up both PHE and W2T. The effect is that PHE pay for all the development work and take all the share dilution, and W2T walk off with half the profits + £20k pcm (as if that wasn't enough) so making more out of it all than PHE.

Why are PHE not instead employing some of those 'consultants' within PHE to do the same work and thus keep 50% more profits for PHE shareholders?

LOL.

[deccer1] 16/6/2019 11:59

The economics don't stack up well do they. I bet that five years from now PHE will still be unable to cover their costs if they have not already gone bust because the first full size system could still fail and has not even been built yet.

[ken chung] 16/6/2019 11:50

Looking bad isnt it.

[nelson5100] 15/6/2019 19:42

All these companies believe in it.
So how many shares does the experienced city chairman hold in the company?

Doesn't he see the multi bagger potential that Warwick-Linesal2 keep posting about?

[nelson5100] 15/6/2019 19:38

Thank goodness all the rampers' are filtering, but all secretly read our posts and then say they are filtering us?

But poor old Warwick spending all these years ramping the share and it is still below the 0.5p nominal value.

Now why is he so concerned about a post asking for a list of any successful projects implemented by Waste2tricity?

Surely they must have some in the ten years since incorporation even though they have over £1 million of accumulated losses?

What research did the Aim listed company carry out before contracting to issue £20,000 per month and to share profits?