Plastics Capital Share Discussion Threads

[yikyak] 08/12/2005 10:34

First off Ash, thank you for taking the time to respond to my comments. I still don't understand why you make so much effort responding to a mining moron but either way it's appreciated.

With so much knowledge of the mining sector I really can't understand why you don't set up business yourself especially with the people skills you have achieved over the years. It would have the perfect chart according to EW rules, the brokers would burn the midnight oil to make investors aware of the company, not promote it you understand! Perfectly negotiated deals would flow in on an almost daily basis and analysts would throw rose petals in front of you as you enter a building as company secretaries throughout the whole sector swoon at your fund raising and cash flow handling ability.

You could be a beacon of management perfection and set the standard for everyone else. :-)

As regards the Panton deal I take the view that if we can use SM's plant and infrastructure - saving a bucket load of money and undoubtably speeding up the process, then it's worth sacrificing some ownership to at least get it contributing to the company coffers to enable South African operations to progress asap.

I would imagine full funding from scratch would be difficult as palladium is so volatile and would also be extremely difficult to undertake without being forced into some sort of hedging agreement. Of course it would have been nice to tie in with a major but at the end of the day it's about the convenience of the SM plant. It's next door, well Australian next door.

I believe it makes perfect sense as Panton currently has no value as such and contributes nothing in terms of cashflow.

[mr ashley james] 08/12/2005 03:15

Yikyak,

I also have a detailed response from ASX:PLA on this score marked confidential, which therefore will remain as such.

It is because of several complaints on this score that he is responding to you, itself confirmation of a major miss reading of UK Investor Sentiment and proof of an unsettled PLA Management Team rattled by virtually Zero Liquidity on AIM Listing and a diminishing UK Investor interest in the Share.

The fact that selling 50% of Panton to Sally Malay is creating this level of fury is giving him little option, which afterall was the point of overt criticism of such IMO Myopic Market Vision.

It still does not excuse incredible short sightedness on Palladium Commodity prices nor how adept market players would look to extract shareholder value from Corporate Assets which have had Millions of Dollars of Shareholder Exploration and Development Dollars spent on them.

Flattering incredibly questionable management decisions does you no favours in the eyes of other investors, there are plenty of buses to catch, and an investor does not love anyone stock, nor hammers his flag to a single mast.

It is about making money after all, and you and I just lost a controlling interest in the only delineated Measured and Indicated PGM Resource n Australia, on the Asian Commodity Market Doorstep for effectively $750,000 ie SFA.

The attributable owned Resources and Reserves of ASX:PLA are now virtually nothing, only non exercised options.

The assets minority or non controlling interests until sufficient capital raised to purchase them .

Defend this disinvestment decision at your peril, not that anyone will care what you post if as is self evident your only interest is to ramp the ASX:PLA Shareprice, without having any comprehension whatsoever of what it is worth, nor what the Company is in fact doing.

The AIM Listing and trading volumes are BTW A self Evident Farce, as I feared it would be, being extremely anti dividing liquidity unnecesarilly between two markets, one which has a significant price disadvantage to the serious mining investor due transaction costs and a dreadfully archaic and detrimental UK MM System.

Controversy and active discussion of stocks on BBs is good for market exposure on shares, you had better get used to it, people are bored of punters that just talk positive on every position they hold, never looking or analysing downside risks.

All IMHO, NAG, DYOR etc

Cheers

Ash:)

[yikyak] 07/12/2005 22:19

Received a response from MD John Lewins in relation to another set of questions last night, in the email he mentioned the news release about Panton as the news had just been released and i'm sure he won't mind me re-producing it here. The speed of the response indicates that rumours of PLA not responding are perhaps the experience of a particular individual/s as I asked the question last night and had a detailed response in my mailbox this morning.

'Our Company is focused on delivering shareholder value and we see the best method of achieving this is to make the successful transition from explorer/developer to producer in the shortest possible time frame. We believe that the projects which the Company has acquired over the past 18 months in South Africa, combined with the latest developments we have just announced on the Panton Project in Australia provide us with an outstanding opportunity to make that transition'.

No arguments on explorer/developer to producer in the shortest possible timeframe and judging by the market out there no better time to do it than now. Should be interesting to see what the volumes are like in OZ overnight as certain juniors have seen a huge increase. One lost cause stock bought yesterday was up by 39% today, the minnows seem to be back in fashion somewhat.

[biswell] 07/12/2005 17:03

Ash

Short term looks like it might slip back to .30

If PLAT fails at 1000 then a head could soon be on this chart

B

[pecker1] 07/12/2005 16:57

Ash,

The stated justification and the vagueness over further possible amounts than the first 1.5m tonnes of ore does not fill me with confidence. They must have been discussing this with Sallay for some time and judged it would be a way to unlock the Panton value to boost the shareprice - arguably Panton valued at zero at the moment. The phrase selling your birthright for a bowel of gruel springs to mind!

Let us know if you get a better explanation out of them.

[mr ashley james] 07/12/2005 02:16

Yikyak,

My initial Reaction is what a bunch of idiots, they should have waited.



I will be looking to question management of any inept mining Company looking to lose 50% of a Palladium Deposit just before the bull gets under way.

In six years of mining investing probably the single most grossly unintelligent move that I have yet seen a mining company make.

I have seriously lost respect for the management accumen here, we have just lost 1.70m troy ounces of PGM Resources in low political risk Australia for SFA.

Most of it Palladium, and to a company with no proven metallurgical, mining, construction or treatment history in PGMs?

What a farce, added value nil, opportunity cost massive.

All the Palladium promise lost for $750,000?

All IMHO, NAG, DYOR etc

Cheers

Ash:)

[yikyak] 07/12/2005 02:08

Jv done with Sally Malay Mining on Panton. :-)

[mr ashley james] 06/12/2005 18:18

Palladium catalysts may kill platinum price rally
December 6, 2005

By Danielle Rossingh

London - A four-year rally that enabled platinum to more than double in price may be over now that car makers are switching to less costly palladium.

Platinum may fall as much as 11 percent to $890 an ounce in the first half of next year, according to Johnson Matthey, the world's largest distributor of the metal.

General Motors, the world's biggest car maker by sales, designed its exhaust systems to substitute palladium for platinum "when one metal gets too expensive", said spokesperson Tom Hill.

Norilsk Nickel of Russia, the world's largest palladium producer, said demand for the cheaper alternative might rise 63 percent next year as jewellers increased use at the expense of platinum.

Wolfgang Wrzesniok-Rossbach, the head of marketing and sales at precious metals company Heraeus Holding, last month said: "We expect a substantial drop in demand as palladium gets substituted for platinum.

"There isn't much demand from industrial buyers at these levels."

Platinum fixed at $998 (R6 356) an ounce yesterday afternoon in London after rising to $1 008 earlier in the day, its best price since March 1980.

Platinum and palladium, which are mined in South Africa and Russia, are used in catalytic converters, which help reduce emissions from automotive exhausts. Platinum is also used in computer screens and jewellery. About 57 percent of platinum demand stems from makers of car catalysts, while jewellery producers account for 30 percent, according to Johnson Matthey.

Umicore, the world's third-largest maker of catalytic converters, this year introduced a system for diesel cars that uses a catalyst made with both platinum and palladium.

"Palladium prices are very low compared with platinum," Umicore spokesperson Geoffroy Raskin said last week.

"If you replace platinum with palladium, you get a much more cost-effective catalyst. It also offers car makers more flexibility because they can choose between the two in the future."

The technology allowed Umicore to replace as much as 25 percent of platinum with palladium, Raskin said.

Platinum prices may also come under pressure as car makers produce more hybrid cars, which run on a petrol-electric motor.

"We view hybrids as a threat to platinum group metals demand," Robin Bahr, a metals analyst with UBS AG in London, said in a report in November.

Output of platinum would fall short of demand this year by 120 000 ounces, Johnson Matthey said last month.

Demand for platinum in jewellery might drop 6 percent to 2.02 million ounces this year as record prices deterred Chinese buyers, according to Johnson Matthey.

Demand for palladium from Chinese jewellers is forecast to rise 71 percent to 1.2 million ounces this year. - Bloomberg

[mr ashley james] 04/12/2005 01:56

Haggis,

They will wake up soon IMO, I play the long game, and would like to see ASX:PLA Cancel their AIM Listing as soon as possible, mining stocks listed on AIM in a non mining market are normally Basket Cases IMO.

IF THE SHARE IS ANY GOOD WHY LIST HERE?

I would prefer ASX:PLA saved the money and listed on JSE where professional mining investors live and understand the stock involved, and the Hedge Fund market is less than Nascent.

My likely prognosis is RAB Capital will short the hell out of this now it is listed on AIM as they do every time to try to control their AIM Market share distribution monopoly given to them by mug punters in the market ie Pseudo Mining Brokers and the ADVFN Cretins who provide their guaranteed aftermarket.

As far as I am concerned a mining stock listed on AIM is a desperate case that can not or does not know how to raise funds locally and should be avoided.

Dailos I specialised in the Cote D'Ivoire for about 5 Years, and I think you are clinically insane investing there currently.

Ivory Coast (Civil Unrest being kind) and the Cluff Connection is an unlikely combination logically.

All IMHO, NAG, DYOR etc

Cheers

Ash:)

[dailos] 02/12/2005 10:53

Ash
Have a look at CLF
d.

[hectorp] 02/12/2005 10:48

Lol Ash, well said re AIM stocks and spreads.
However you also must admit you've been touting this baby around for ages on ADVFN threads . I hope you didnt make too many new enemies now you have revealed you sold for a very good gain. Well done you: no fool with money parted.
For me , fool and money were certainly not parted here.
better off with AQP on the Main market, as I know you'll entirely concur.
H.

[mr ashley james] 02/12/2005 00:29

Jules,

You may be correct but was deeply unimpressed by delay in AIM Listing of a week to Friday 25th November from Monday 21st November 2005, consequent delay to Monday 28th November 2005, revised delay to Wednesday 30th November 2005, 3006 Volume day 1 of listing, and consistant calls of directors not replying to investors emails.

In the end bluntly I think AIM Listing was a waste of corporate funds and prefer UK Liquidity to be added to Australian Liquidity, not caring if UK mms get rich or poor.

It is my considered belief that 1 plus 1 does not equal 2, ie ASX plus AIM is a minus point, I rest my case on endless UK Dual Lists, zero Volume and mm spreads detering UK Investment due utterly outrageous self defeating mm spreads that kill liquidity and investor sentiment.

An investor minus 20% on transaction cost on entry with mms shorting the equity does not return any time soon, he or she departs for years.

I personally can see no reason any longer to invest in AIM and was more than happy to see the pro active investor buying or selling ASX Stock with extra liquidity in one place with a typically AU$0.005 Spread.

As Hitchens Harrison employees have either at HH or prior brokers made investors money on overseas listings, not AIM Listings I really question why they listed ASX:PLA on AIM which is in my opinion the kiss of death to a mining stock due transaction costs, which they as a non mm make no money from, and by definition murder their client capital base by thus supporting.

To me ASX:PLA listing on AIM dividing UK Liquidity from Australian Liquidity and exacerbating investing costs is the single most stupid thing a Company can do.

So I have culled at a very fine profit on 55.55% of the holding in ASX:PLA last week on the basis that AIM is bluntly an uninvestible market in due Broker MM Spreads which totally impede the ability of even the most gung ho investor or trader to make money investing or trading in.

AIM and UK MMs are IMHO an virtually extinct T-Rex or Veloceraptor waiting to get culled, the sooner, and IMHO with Global internet trading it will be soon, the better!

So ASX:PLA lost the proactivity card, they followed the herd and therefore got filed in file number F for Fool, a description very difficult to shake in Equity trading circles (A Fool and His Money are Easily Parted etc)IMO.

As for quoting a Normal Market Size of 10,000 shares say £1,500 need I go on?

All IMHO, NAG, DYOR etc

Cheers

Ash:)

[justjules] 01/12/2005 12:44

Ash... Hope the interest doesn't stay short.. Big charts shows a nice hammer on the daily... What do you think?
I heard about PLA through an aussie friend who had a mate with Lonmin, who recommended it, so I took it:-)

[mr ashley james] 01/12/2005 01:06

JustJules,

Be careful it appears interest has changed to short side after 350%/400% in five months.

Cheers

Ash:)

[mr ashley james] 30/11/2005 13:07

JustJules,

Out of interest if you do not mind me asking how did you hear about ASX:PLA in 2004 presumably Panton etc?

Cheers

Ash:)

[justjules] 30/11/2005 12:05

Thanks for that Ash

[pecker1] 30/11/2005 10:52

Jj,

My Aussie- bought shares are already in an ISA. The question is whether PLA shareholdings will now qualify for cap gains tax relief (ie 10% after 2 years) plus IHT exemption if held for more than two years - important if you want to hold more than an ISA allowance.

So the AIM listing may indeed help UK-based PLA shareholders, even if they buy more cheaply in Australia. So maybe an AIM listing is not quite so daft as Ash suggests.Could also help in the event of future fund-raising. But agree the UK MM system will end up cutting its own throat.

[justjules] 30/11/2005 10:30

might be interesting for you guys who want to use your ISA allowance , as in theory PLAA should be ae ISA-able even though it is an aim share because of its dual listing. Need to ask your broker,
Maybe if we all buy on aim they will narrow the spread... and then again......!!
btw.. have held this share since about june 2004 so am glad to see it rising again as I took my eye off it earleir this year.... so much for stop losses... glad I didn't have one:-)

[mr ashley james] 30/11/2005 10:18

Hector,

Yes it is there all right but nobody can expect anybody to trade or buy it with a 17.00p to 14.00p ie 3.00p spread, and why should they if they can buy it in Australia with a AU$0.005 spread.

Living proof that AIM Listings are a waste of shareholder funds very much as I pointed out to ASX:PLA

Why any decent mining stock would want to list in the Rubbish Tip of AIM Mining Stocks I can not understand anyway a truely daft decision IMO especially when everybody can buy say £5,000 or £10,000 for the sake of arguement of it in Australia and automatically save £882.35 to £1,764.70 or 17.64% less the effective spread of AU$0.35/AU$0.355 ie 0.005 or roughly 1.41% or £70.42 to £140.85 on the same investment amounts.

All the Major UK Banks and Brokers like TD Waterhouse offer Australian ASX Shares.

All IMHO, NAG, DYOR etc

Cheers

Ash:)

[pecker1] 30/11/2005 10:13

H,

It's there alright but no trades so far. Platinum correction probably hasn't helped.

[hectorp] 30/11/2005 10:05

No sign of it yet Ashley.

[mr ashley james] 29/11/2005 20:16

Rambutan, thanks I understand according to Yikyak ticker code will be LSE:PLAA

[rambutan2] 29/11/2005 15:26

confirmation etc of listing tomorrow...

[ianwc] 29/11/2005 09:10

Ashley, yes. I have seen PLA present twice in the last 6 months.