Phoenix Copper Share Discussion Threads

[haveapunt1] 05/1/2024 09:02

@Sipptrader88.

I agree. Although I would caveat that with the interims stating they have working capital well into 2024 which should have taken into account the Mackay loan. I hope its just prudent management but the key will be the terms (as in the IF we need it, rather than we ARE having it as you say.)

For me, there is now no excuses from the company. The big tick people seem to have missed today is the fact the Bonds are now finalised and with the settlement agent. This is the biggest, most time-consuming part and often laborious.

The fact this is now completed is a BIG plus from a timeline perspective. I would be more worried if the bonds were still being drafted.

It is now simply finding/convincing the lenders. How quick this will be no one knows. It could be days, weeks, months, but we are at the final stage.

i will sit and wait patiently on the basis if the board pull this off, the valuation of the company would be phenomenal and achieved with no dilution and a low amount of shares in play (relatively speaking)

[sipptrader88] 05/1/2024 08:54

"The Company also refers to the $2 million short-term loan facility (the "Facility") first announced on 24 March 2023, and confirms that it is in negotiations with the lender to roll the Facility into a new and larger facility to assist the Company with access to additional working capital, should it be required for purposes other than construction of the Empire open-pit copper mine."

"should it be required" means "IF" needed.

they had to pay $240k to Mackay by 31st Dec 23.

“ In April 2021, the Group entered into an agreement with Mackay LLC to acquire 1% of the 2.5% net smelter royalty payable on mining leases on the Empire Mine in Idaho, USA. Total consideration payable to Mackay LLC is $800,000, of which $560,000 has been paid. Deferred consideration comprises one further payment of $240,000 due on 31 December 2023.

[haveapunt1] 05/1/2024 08:46

IMO its a case of the documentation for the creation of the bonds is 'ready to go' (so that's progress at least), but at the current time no investor has actually committed to taking the bonds. The risk being the Company end up spending time and money on getting bonds set up, for no one to take them.

However, the company has been consistent with their confidence, but my gut tells me this will run into Q2, hence the downward trend on the stock price.

That said, if they get the bonds away, it could be one of the risers of 2024 on AIM with estimated EM $780mil revenue, pay back in 24 months from mine completion, and a current mcap of £24mil.

[haveapunt1] 05/1/2024 08:21

@Donald.

The only query i would have, is that if discussions are indeed so far advanced, and as my points allude to, that filings have taken place and bonds are with the settlement agent, it would be odd to still have the wording in todays RNS "The issue of the bonds remains subject to the satisfactory conclusion of discussions with interested bond investors".

IMO there should not be any satisfactory conclusion of discussions, they should have been finished.

Increasing the RF loan facility is a slight concern, as one would hope if the bonds were close (bearing in mind the company has until 23 March with RF), and the interims state cash runway "well into 2024", as Trek pointed out on LSE (which i was unaware of), the bond funds should be covering working capital, so why increase with RF, unless matters were not as 'shortly' as we hope.

But we asked for an update, and it was provided, so fair play to the company and RW

[cromw3ll] 05/1/2024 08:18

"The relevant documentation relating to the creation of the bonds has now been finalised, the bond security has been recorded with the Custer County Recorder in Challis, Idaho, and the bonds have been deposited with the settlement agent. The issue of the bonds remains subject to the satisfactory conclusion of discussions with interested bond investors."

Good enough for me, it confirms to me that its highly likely to happen, just a matter of taking time.

"The Company also refers to the $2 million short-term loan facility (the "Facility") first announced on 24 March 2023, and confirms that it is in negotiations with the lender to roll the Facility into a new and larger facility to assist the Company with access to additional working capital, should it be required for purposes other than construction of the Empire open-pit copper mine."

And separately they are negotiating additional finance facility "IF" needed.

STRONG BUY DYOR

[donald pond] 05/1/2024 07:59

I've been busy elsewhere but tbh haveapunt, who I don't believe I know, has hit the nail on the head. I've got very little to add.

Company remains confident that bond funding will happen very shortly, and are ready to issue bonds as soon as the money arrives.

Riverfort have no interest in converting and are talking about a new facility.

Of course, the progress at Empire depends upon bond financing, and until the monies arrived financing is not complete. We all understand that.

[sipptrader88] 05/1/2024 07:50

It is as it is...They are taking proactive action and borrowing a bit more to strengthen the "cash in hand" to give themselves a bit more time to conclude the financing.

From what I understand they like to operate well in advance of the "critical point" so as not to be backed into a corner. It is a sound decision in the circumstances. There is no doubt that they had expected to have concluded the financing by now and are frustrated they haven't.

They remain confident in closing at least one of the bond investors.

[kaos3] 05/1/2024 07:39

I have full respect for their spin

They are finishing the bond paper work etc...sounds perfect to me. Just around the corner.

Reminds me of my friend who was building a house for his family being virgin at 35 without a girl. Ever. But there was one girl he was talking to. A. And the whole alphabet he passed each day.

Sometimes he was thinking about getting a small short term costly fun with a professional.

He was too clever and decent person to do it

I always wished he would score. He was a very decent person

[haveapunt1] 05/1/2024 07:37

The County Clsuter is the same as our UK Land Registry from what I gather. Therefore I stuggle to see why the charge over the assests has now been issued as in the RNS if the lender wasn’t happy. You wouldn’t register the charge.

But I agree it’s taking way too long.

It is also not unusual for the lender to bar use of the money for other uses other than what it’s being borrowed for. I she dealt with many loans on this basis.

We also don’t know how much the increased facility will be, and on what terms.

The key as ever is getting the bonds away but it certainly not “no bonds”. No lender would still be in discussions for this
Long if there wasn’t a common goal to get it “done”

[boonboon] 05/1/2024 07:27

It was a poor rns imo.Didn't answer the main question investors were asking about the lack of extension rns. Which is can Riverfort now convert into shares if they want to.They're hoping to increase the amount and time of the Riverfort loan potentially pushing the bond can down the road even further.

[saucepan] 05/1/2024 07:27

I am surprised you have such a positive interpretation, haveapunt1. I hope you are correct.

The need to try to enlarge and extend the loan suggests to me that the Company has run out of cash and that the "the satisfactory conclusion of discussions with interested bond investors" is by no means a given.

[joe say] 05/1/2024 07:26

I hope you are right - to me it reads as playing for time

[haveapunt1] 05/1/2024 07:13

Well done to the board for updating the market and listening to shareholders. A rare thing on aim.

Looks like all going to plan, and far from uncommon for a lender to ensure that bond money is for the pure use of the mine.

Have no reason to distrust the board and looks like patience required

Should see us creep back into the 20s now

[kaos3] 05/1/2024 07:09

Can kicking meaning i just googled

[kaos3] 04/1/2024 16:34

greyingsuerfer

exactly ....

the word IF,

you used /provided - conditional/ was my whole point

multiplying the risk profile of the cost of the loan with possible * IF * consequences is the real cost

must be well bellow numerical return on the used loan poetically described as good bussiness

i appologise ... for the word poetically ... is appropriate imho but not aimed at you

12 pc returned good business

that is poetry to me lol

12 pc * IF costs VS numerical return on the funds used is what i was asking

why ... because as far i remember the funds were used for few more holes ... was it neccessary to take the risk first and second what is the NPV of few more holes VS RF loan multiplied with IF consequences

all is just my opinion and probably no one agrees so do not bother... i am just a jester slovenian gardener
so who cares about my words ... no one should

[greyingsurfer] 04/1/2024 16:21

It was good business, provided they can sort funding and repay by March. Otherwise things are likely to get nasty!

[kaos3] 04/1/2024 16:19

haveapunt1


I was talking about the bond terms as indicated by DP .... cant remember exactly .... but it was expensive and not even all sweet cherries for the financier were added to the DP report probably

on RF loan ... lets wait until we see the end cost ... financial to the present equity holders directly and indirectly

but just 12 per cent in the real economy for a non income entity i consider stratospheric ... and hence it is expensive considering the reality...

but what return did management produce on the loan i ask

20 per cent or more .... to make it worth taking... i will be glad to know the return on this 12 pc loan ... as that is the point ... return ... in cash ... above the cost of capital...

but ... this will be all known in the future so good deal and do not worry with this ball dribbling on 1 squre meter wiothout hitting the goal

[haveapunt1] 04/1/2024 15:58

Kasos don’t think there were “buddies ratesl at 12% per annum interest plus 1% per month on extensions, and the loan was unsecured which is a no no in my eyes for any lender. I think they got a cracking deal and avoiding dilution (other than warrants but even these were issued at 42p!)

Sounds good business to me from the board

[kaos3] 04/1/2024 15:39

i would just comment as a non holder ....

which to many reduces the argument to almost nothing /i will buy 1 share so the same statement has suddelny more credibility to many - wow - pure human magic/

if a human does not deliver on his words in SIX MONTHS - it is a BS

somewhere

not neccessarly by the person who said it
--------------------------------------------------
most usual suspects went silent. ...

closed period is just a legal cover /or not/ to not tell what must be told IN THE APPROPRIATE MOMENT

taking the RF loan to make progress or something was to me not prudent back then /exposed risk taking of a vurnable entity is bad management - if weak one has to play safe until strong/

plan B and C after a year + were not triggered ... very bad ... if nothing else plan A people would be challenged and their hand forced. one could suspect insiders getting buddies finances at superb terms, one could suspect RF friends will get their golden eggs too.... i am not claiming that is a fact or that i think that is going on but such a thought /misterious one entity financier with ever and ever better terms to the degree at which few months back i asked which is better ... new debt or present equity and if i can buy debt on the market when issued/ crossed my balkan mind

and on and on it goes

[cu5hty] 04/1/2024 15:36

Ptolemy

I do subscribe to TA just not to pure EW Theory. I find all to often that those who do tend to keep moving the goalposts to suit their narrative. But your analysis is fair, just subjective, after all most TA is. You can't go far wrong if you buy a share price that is trending up and selling if trending down - just avoid the tops and bottoms and be happy with the middle bit.
One thing for sure, I wouldn't come across this chart and consider PXC is a buy.

[sipptrader88] 04/1/2024 14:51

If they are in a closed period it's hardly the year end financial results released at the end of May last year....suppose it could be M & A...(pure speculation)....I await calls back from all our brokers! would not want to disturb RW in case he's getting the signature...lol

[dougmachin] 04/1/2024 14:35

Yep, I really don't think the problem is right now.

The issue is, 23rd March 2024 is drawing very close.

There is now a very clear deadline (IMO) to get funding over the line.

And also how much money is in the coffers to keep going into 2024?
Irrespective of paying back RF (as RF could maybe extend from March 2024).

[copper copper] 04/1/2024 14:22

I think they have more time to RNS the extension that we think, as shown by the Sept RNS being a few days late. I asked the question in Sept, and Boon told me it's a given that they extended, and they don't need to RNS it. Maybe that's just boon pretending he knows better, I have no idea.