Panther Securities Share Discussion Threads

[russman] 05/6/2021 21:53

Very difficult to change the portfolio mix quickly and efficiently.
Perloff has always dealt in the cheap end of the market.
It is cheap for a number of reasons & risk is increasing.

[debsdowner] 05/6/2021 15:48

Up to 70 of 700 shopping centres could be close and some are 80% empty due to covid



Many couold be empty for years and I think Perloff is being too optimistice with conversion or rented to the council.

[debsdowner] 30/5/2021 22:23

HT

This is what Perloff said at the time:

Warming to his theme, Perloff let fly: "I have long held the view that: 1) It is foolish to upset your Landlord. 2) It is foolish to upset those that provide you with finance. 3) It is foolish for a quoted company to upset its largest shareholder. 4) It is foolish to sack a director who is knowledgeable, well connected and who does not charge a salary or any expenses.

"In one fell swoop Beales has managed all of these, which must be some type of record! It is hard to understand their logic."



What is ironic is Beales didnt do any better when it was acquired by Perloff and delisted as a PLC !!!!

In essence it was foolish for Perloff to come out with the comments he made as his knowledge on retail and the future of retail flawed. I suspect the board of Beales got fed up with a property FCO who had no knowledge of retail disrupting the board.

[hennessy trades] 30/5/2021 11:37

According to companies House Peters is 44. Wasn't he on Beales board at some point but removed much to the chagrin of Perloff?

[debsdowner] 30/5/2021 10:53

HT

"It is intended that Simon Peters, who has been Finance Director for over
fifteen years, and played a major part in keeping the Group on a steady course,
will step up to be Chief Executive Officer as from 1 January 2022 thus
relieving me of some of my responsibilities, despite numerous requests for me
to fully retire, entirely from my wife, which seemed to cease towards the end
of the first lockdown. Thus I will be able to continue to work for similar
hours concentrating on all matters that are most appropriate to my skills as
Executive Chairman. "

"steady course" !!!!

The bealles aquisition which Simon Peters was overseen by turned out to be a dissaster. Rretail was already strugglign before Perloff bought the company. Perloff also bought at least 2 arcades one of which was in Southport which at the time was yieldijng a good return and they thought they could increase the yield and now its almost empty.

I would say Perloff has lost the plot and not surprised his wife wants him to retire.

It could take years to convert or rent out some of his retail acquisitions and with worldwide property and assets overvalued the company is high risk imo,

Notr sure how old Simon Peters is but I suspect not far behind Perloff they have been together a long time.

Shareholders who invesst here are investing in an illiquid share in strange times and the1 only thing keeping the share price from falling further is the dividend.

There doesnt seem to be any new blood comming in at all so that is a concern, in fact staff have been reduced.

There are far more exciting opportunuties toi invest in losts of shares have doubled in price since the pandemic started.

[hennessy trades] 29/5/2021 16:07

Yes and the question is will the new tenant in Skeggy still be there when the rent hits £150k? Any letting is good as it rids him of the rates burden but for how long? Also he mentions handing over reigns to Simon Peters but according to the website he is an accountant not a property man. Have they got any property men apart from Mr Perloff?

[debsdowner] 29/5/2021 15:54

TRCML

"economical the truth" sums things up, I missed the results but here is my take:

Cover on interest rates has dropped near half compared to 5 years ago is a red flag!

His ramblings may on occasions educate people on what or not what to do but he has still made a number of poor aquisitions in particular the Wayfarers Arcade in Southport which is near empty, it would be good to know what rents he is actually receiving for this multi million purchase !

As for hoping to rent out some of these properties I suspect the councils have limited need as a lot of their staff can work from home. Does he not realise the world has changed and that means retail as well !

In fact he has admitted he can manage with less staff that is proof of the pudding and eating !

The results are better than I was thinking but the interest cover has fallen sharply on rents !

As for the 300k concessions he has made this is really a paltry figure! He blames the council for not giving more but I suspect many a tennant in a worse state of health !

The shares are illiquid and when you consider the loss of market cap the last few years the dividend doesn't make up for that !

I would not recommend anyone buying the stock its still too risky, I am not as optimistic as he is on the future in rentals and conversions, I have seen large stores in various towns stay empty for years, in fact many of the previous BHS are still empty today. We have a Debenhmas in our town been empty now for over a year and no prospect at all for conversion or rental as its on the edge of town !

As for some comments by other posters that an illiquid stock proves good over time well it hasn't proved good here. Once the share goes x dividend the share price will probably fall back again !

His ramblings may amuse some but more fless onn the bone as to how some of his aquisitions were actually doing would be of more interest and the statement lacks detail !

All in all this company will never explode into growth it may plod along for years to come but still is risky, the high street has changed forever and a lot of peope are working from home and he doesnt seem to accept this ! Possibly he is now too old to remain the captain of this ship which is still burdened with a lot of debt and on that front the debt ceiling has been reduced !!!

TRCML spot on with your entire post its not just Skegness with a low rents there are many more stores or arcades which must be giving Perloff a headache !

[trcml] 28/5/2021 18:50

Somewhat economical the the truth about Skegness ex-beales. Yes the rent ends up at 150K but not for years, Meanwhile. no rent until December 2021.

[topvest] 26/5/2021 21:12

Yes, great to see Perloff is still holding his own. I am no longer a shareholder, but still read his Ramblings... top man! Sounds like he is passing some of his duties over to Simon Peters. Hopefully, he will still preside as Executive Chairman for many years to come. He is a legend!

[russman] 26/5/2021 19:32

pleasantly surprised. "Torrid" market is apt.

[nickrl] 26/5/2021 11:32

Chairmans ramblins as ever worth a read but at least with a small company like this you get grass roots detail about whats happening which is missing from the big boys so you get a good idea over the state of the business.

Shelling out £5m to vary a swap agreement was a big hit to the bottom line mind you but as you say given the portfolio they've done a lot better than I would have expected but impossible to trade this one.

[1tx] 26/5/2021 10:24

Results show a somewhat better position than I expected with some prospects for progress;I would not suggest anyone buy the shares as frankly they are difficult to trade with a huge spread and unless something "turns up" I have my holding bought years ago for life but at least they are producing a reasonable income and is only a smallish holding!

[trcml] 26/4/2021 12:30

Research shows that illiquid shares outperform over the long-term. As investors and traders like flexibility for buying and selling decisions they want liquidity but the liquidity adds a premium to the share price: in other words, investors overpay. Property is a long-term investment: it makes no sense to provide regular updates just to join in with the hype. In my view, it is not that the market is necessarily sceptical of the management history so much as the quality of the assets and growth prospects. personally i think Panther is past it, but the old boy might surprise us yet!

[debsdowner] 20/4/2021 11:58

itx

What about the debts?

Assets are overvalued throughout the world and in the UK there is an excess of both retail and office space and that is the risk here.

If he was that shrewd why has he bought proerty arcades which have become empty and worthless?

You only have to read the news on the Coventry arcade and Bootle Strand the latter which is now a white elephant and costing the rate payers millions.

In the meantime Hamerson have revealed they are only receiving less than half their rents due|:

HAMERSON the property owner has only collected half its rents



If you think AP is a shrewd guy well why is the share price at a significant discount to its net asset value and an illiquid share to trade when the stock market was on a high recently?

The market speaks volumes its not being traded as its treated as a high risk investment and being avoided due to the markets sceptical views on management history.

If property values fall and rents fall the risk rises.

[hennessy trades] 24/3/2021 15:46

Mr Perloff is a shrewd old Londoner.he should look at partnering up with housing associations on some of these. I have a few on my books that may put money into a conversion and Panther retain the ground floors for essential retail or leisure uses. I will send him an email and see what he says.

[1tx] 24/3/2021 15:32

For heavens sake debs I wish I had shown as much "lack of judgement" as AP over the years!He has built up a probable three figures of millions property & other investments empire of which Panther is only a part.

[debsdowner] 24/3/2021 12:43

The shares are totally illiquid and no good to anyone would need to dispose of a holding with also a large spread.

Avoid imo more properties are becomimg empty every day, John Lewis announces a further 8 store closues today



A further 18,000 stores clould close this year



The purchase of Beales turned into a dissaster for Perloff it shows his lack of judgement.

[1tx] 23/3/2021 14:19

We live more or less to fight another day it seems,not too sure we should pay a divi at this time!Perhaps we should use cash to convert the gigantic Bedford town centre site to flats or the Dumfries Debs store to smaller units as is quite well located.Don't suggest anyone buys here at the moment.I retain my holding.....

[hennessy trades] 05/3/2021 07:56

Statement states that they are collecting 80% of rent but no mention of how many are concessionary rents or payment plans. It doesnt go into detail about non recoverable, rates, service charges etc. I suspect that these might be high with a lot of tenants on concessionary rents and service charge caps. How many vacant units do they have in the portfolio and how long have they been vacant? Very hard to get a feel without knowing this. A long road ahead. Some of the properties might not be lettable in current configuration/condition.

[trcml] 26/2/2021 20:40

Not a shareholder holder, but a follower (commercial property very knowledgeable). Market cap about 50% CV of portfolio valuation. Assuming actual sale price of portfolio circa 20% lower, the share price is perhaps slightly on the high side. Interesting, AP is experiencing difficulty refinancing, having to include some uncharged property to top up: one lender friendly, the other wary understandably, secondary property of the calibre P owns, particularly vacant ex department stores, is not flavour of the month.

[debsdowner] 26/2/2021 14:46

nickri

Yes have red the RNS and one must read the valuations with caution as the lenders have their own independant valuations but they may not be far out.

The dividend declaration been postponed but as the company is collecting 80% of its rents I suspect they will pay a dividend.

However the shares are illiquid and a wide spread and the yield not enough to make up for the loss of market cap.

Overall I think the shares are risky and there are better places to invest rather than tie money up in a illiquid share with assets worldwide overvalued including property.

In the next few years I expect a flood of rental property from conversions from shops and offices and that will affect yields.

[nickrl] 26/2/2021 10:18

PNS have update out on refinancing and valuation



Seem to have a valuation thats not deteriorated since last annual results which is surprising but so must the 30% industrials supporting it. They have some issue still sort on the refinancing with one lender secured the other not so are seeking an extension of 3mths on current arrangements.

Spent 5m buying themselves out of a swap which is a big expense.

[hybrasil] 26/2/2021 07:35

Have followed for many years and am a commercial property owner

40% gearing here is now actually worrying.
They will probably get through this refinance but where are they going?

[debsdowner] 25/2/2021 14:22

Copied from last interim results:

Dividends

We paid a final dividend of 6p per share on 7 September 2020 in respect for the
year ended 31 December 2019.

The Directors hope to be in a position to be able to declare a 6p interim for
the year ending 31 December 2020 in February 2021, but such declaration will be
subject to gaining a clearer understanding of COVID-19 and its financial
effects on our Group so there can be no certainty that such a dividend will be
declared. "

No news and no declaration and its the last day tomorrow.

[debsdowner] 25/2/2021 13:33

No news on refinance?