Panther Securities Share Discussion Threads

[ntv] 07/9/2018 17:54

Purchaser of Sutton house doesn't want to pay up just yet
If not paid for in full by this time next week then I guess Panther get to keep the deposit and additional payments. Then I guess they can put the property back on the market. Interesting

[ntv] 07/9/2018 12:33

Mr Perloff's holding now nearly 11% in CFYN

[topvest] 03/9/2018 20:38

You always know when its the top of the market and Perloff sells some very valuable assets. Good news today and maybe another one to come as NTV says.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 03/9/2018 07:42

I wouldn't buy property companies at the moment personally even if the discount to stated NAV looks attractive. I reckon the market may have some way to fall finally.

[ntv] 03/9/2018 07:29

Birmingham site sale has gone through so more cash in the bank.
Later this week (Thursday 6th)Sutton site is due for completion

[ntv] 01/9/2018 08:16

large line of stock gone through @325 (for PNS anyway) ahead of news next week as Birmingham site was due to complete on Friday 31st

[ntv] 26/8/2018 14:50

hopefully some good news in early September re sales

[ntv] 19/8/2018 20:27

ALS other prefs bought back a couple of years ago were at a premium so don't hold your breath

[arthur_lame_stocks] 19/8/2018 15:46

The prefs shouldn't really make much difference to NAV per share as presumably they would be redeemed at par but they do give the family complete control of the company.

I'm not sure the family have any real incentive to give up that control so I don't know if Perloff will ever be able to force out any of that value. None the less I recently bought a few CFYN just for the deep value.

[topvest] 19/8/2018 11:16

Thanks NTV - certainly an interesting situation. Yes, hadn't quite spotted the preference share point.
"Mr S G M Caffyn and Miss S J Caffyn are directors of Caffyn Family Holdings Limited which owns all of the 2,000,000 6% cumulative second preference shares which have full voting rights." Means they can fend off a predator.

Perloff has acquired motor dealership companies in the past though so he has form.
I suppose it depends on whether the Caffyn's are going to retire and want out or whether they have sons / daughters to take over. No doubt Perloff knows what he is getting into and there is a 5% yiled whilst he waits. Quite an attractive asset play as long as the vehicle dealerships don't start making losses.

Fully agree with you though. The motor dealerships are only really break-even at best, if you factor in a rental for the properties. The Group would probably make £3m or so of profit as a property company!

[ntv] 19/8/2018 10:05

topvest
Caffyns has a lot preference shares in issue that cloud the picture of nett assets per ordinary shares. these appear to have voting rights equal to the ordinaries in the case of a takeover over approach
more details if you scroll back through the thread and in the annual reports
They also prevent Caffyns from raising money effectively from outside the family but things might be changing
it is certainly getting interesting with Charles Stanley and Mr Perloff effectively putting a floor under the current price
i think Caffyns would make more money from just renting out the sites rather than selling cars.
The old landrover site says it all

[ntv] 19/8/2018 10:05

topvest
Caffyns has a lot preference shares in issue that cloud the picture of nett assets per ordinary shares. these appear to have voting rights equal to the ordinaries in the case of a takeover over approach
more details if you scroll back through the thread and in the annual reports
They also prevent Caffyns from raising money effectively from outside the family but things might be changing
it is certainly getting interesting with Charles Stanley and Mr Perloff effectively putting a floor under the current price
i think Caffyns would make more money from just renting out the sites rather than selling cars.
The old landrover site says it all

[topvest] 14/8/2018 19:48

NTV - thanks very interesting. Caffyn's is a deep value play. Book value is c£27m (or c£37m revaluing their properties as there is a £10m uplift disclosed on those) versus the £11m market value. Looks like Perloff has over 9% so now the biggest holder. Caffyn's does have a big pension scheme deficit that complicates things, but that hasn't put Perloff off in the past.

[ntv] 13/8/2018 18:15

Mr Perloff is also building a significant stake in Caffyns
any thoughts on Panther bidding for Caffyns or helping a management take it private
He has been building a significant stake very quickly

[ntv] 13/8/2018 18:13

Heybridge site looks interesting
i think it is next to an Asda store and is 9.5 acres
side onto residential but you never know whether the council would allow that change of use in the future
there has been a fair bit of expansion in the area already.
even if they did, agreeing all the paperwork will probably be protracted so doubt it would happen in the immediate future

topvest
if one or both parties walkaway from the "sale agreed" sites then Panther should still do ok as you said with the deposits and fees.So no harm done to the balance sheet. Especially after the Wimbledon studio sale plus other sales
probably got £23m from those before tax

[topvest] 13/8/2018 13:00

Perloff is having some great fun with these land sales. Sounds like the other parties are struggling to raise finance and with every delay, Perloff increases the price / non refundable deposit. Can see at least one of the transactions being aborted and Panther being able to keep the deposit and property. The difference between the prudent and astute versus the desperate and leveraged investor I suspect.

[ntv] 13/8/2018 12:10

Sutton sale delayed now but it appears only for a few days
lets just hope everything completes in due course
be interesting to get some news on the land sale at Wickford

[ntv] 13/8/2018 10:46

well that is another £500k in and it makes it more likely that the land sale will complete at the end of August
could well be that Panther have over £35m in cash (excluding any debt associated with sales that has to be paid off) and this will see them through any Brexit problems in the property market and secure dividends over the next few years.
2021 see a big reduction in interest rate costs
meanwhile the increase in short term rates will see the swap position improve although this might be reversed later in the year as the economy stalls
downside is valuation and rents receivable from retail assets
I guess some of these though can be sold off to developers for residential use but a little bit limited on that
as more shops close then the government might eventually rethink it's strategy on rates. but they have no forward vision

[topvest] 11/7/2018 18:27

Perloff is definitely selling assets. Quite a good indicator of where we are in the cycle. Near the top probably.

[russman] 11/7/2018 14:03

Nice profit. R

[topvest] 11/7/2018 13:08

Yes, excellent update again. Well done Perloff.

[ntv] 11/7/2018 12:04

added a few more today
a good sale and completed
huge cut in interest rate costs to come through in the dec 2021 as predicted

[ntv] 22/6/2018 14:45

thanks topvest

[topvest] 20/6/2018 21:33

OK, thanks NTV anyway. Best wishes.

[ntv] 20/6/2018 09:30

sorry not going to make agm as my vertigo has had the better of me for the last couple of days as busy places are not for the brain. london and the train station/underground would be hard work if not impossible