Panther Securities Share Discussion Threads

[debsdowner] 23/2/2021 12:11

1tx

You apparently know Southport quite well but Lord St is now half empty with charity shops which would not have been allowed at one time. The Scarisbrick holtel is now owned by Brittania and has one of the worst rating of the hotel industry and they own the Prince of Wales as well which is now a dump!

There had been talk of a resteraunt in the ARCADE but nothing inside to attract visitors inside the arcade as the two anchor tennants, Beales and Multiyork now dissapeared and most if not virtually all the 50 plus other small shops now disspeared.

It is truly a white elephant which cannot be converted to either offices or retail and the owners did well to sell out when they did they knew shops where on the decline and in fact shopping in Southport was in decline.

You cannot pull it down as its a listed building and with Lord Street already a mess who would want to invest considerable money and then lose it all.

You only hacve to look at the Bootle Srand which was bought by the coucil and wasted tens of millions of pounds and that indeed may be pulled down to build flats.

Perloff has lost the plot on some of his purchases didn't he buy another shopping arcade somewhere as well?

[1tx] 19/2/2021 11:55

Panther is approx 75% owned by Andrew P directly & by various family trusts & companies.I doubt if many "outsiders" have significant holdings.FWIW I have a few thousand shares which I bought years ago.The shares are presently totally illiquid and are unbuyable & unsellable.Over the years they have paid a reasonable divi & the odd special divi.Most recently when the company sold the Wimbledon Studios & the Birmingham "Girl Guides" development at a large profit.Who knows what gems or horrors exist in its portfolio!As far as Southport is concerned as well as The Wayfarers Arcade which is a superb Grade 2 listed Victorian glass roofed emporium;I imagine its only future is to turn it into a Afflecks Palace (Manchester) specialised set up & adjoining Beales;Panther also own 375 Lord St which was a large shoe shop.Until 2007 I had by my standards a very substantial interest in The Scarisbrick Hotel on the same street,which I sold to the then management.Then the hotel was mega busy as was Lord Street.How times have changed!

[debsdowner] 14/2/2021 16:15

HT

" Perloff late 70's if he stops working what quality younger property men have they got to steer the company into the future? "

He has steered the ship into a lot of rough waters with retial proerty and many of its properties not fit to convert to residential and commercial office space is now unwanted.

Some of the properties must be givingn him a headache not knowing what to do with them and not enough income to pay interest costs.

He made so much of the Wayfairers arcade expected yield now its virtually empty. As tenats start to exit in an arcade the others left look for other properties on the Higfh Street the dieease spreads.

Xhopping Arcades are becoming no go areas due to the covid pandemic and even when the UK populatiuon is all vacinated most people now shop online.

Panter has painted himslef into a corner with some of his properties and it will be interested to see how he gets out of the situation.

As for his arguments about some of the properties being converted into storage, most of the big boys in the field wnat far bigger properties than he has to hold.

The big boys wnat land no smaller than a football pitch for storage and that and I dont think he has properties in that arena.

I expect a statement possibly this week or the week after when he makes a statement on the dividend.

[hennessy trades] 13/2/2021 17:10

Perloff has seen plenty of ups and downs, so he is as good a captain Panther could have. As you said he is an old dog but where are Panther young dogs? Perloff late 70's if he stops working what quality younger property men have they got to steer the company into the future? Looking at the old account they had an accountant named Rowson who retired and a property chap called Doyle on the board, but it says he resigned to set up his own firm. It's a valid question as there are likely to be stormy waters ahead.

[topvest] 13/2/2021 16:44

Yes, their web-site has a hideous weighting towards tertiary retail. That being said they are super cheap anyway. I expect Perloff will keep the wheels on, but he is having to push water uphill.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks!

Anyway, wishing Perloff all the best and hope to get back in as a shareholder at some point.

Looking forward to the next Rambling!

[debsdowner] 13/2/2021 16:03

Share price lower now than it was in 2008 in the last financial crisis. This suggests Panther could be heading for a lot more write downs and a dividend cut.

Many of its retail properties not suitable for conversion and shops could be empty for years.

I suspect any refinancing will now come at penal interest rates meaning less profits for the company and greater risk.

The banks arent stupid they know commercial property is high risk at the moment charge interest risk accordingly.

I bet Panther won't be buying any more shopping arcades for some time. A shopping centre in Coventrly went for a few million recently which was worthe over 10 times its value a decade ago it just shows how these sites have fallen in value.

[debsdowner] 10/2/2021 16:55

Another reason to avoid is the wide spread on the stock and little volume.

[hennessy trades] 09/2/2021 10:57

Panther are facing massive valuation write downs judging by the location and type of their sites. I expect they will still pay some form of a dividend as the bulk of the stock is family owned and Mr Perloff does not take a salary.

[debsdowner] 08/2/2021 10:05

More trouble on the High Street and moree shops to permamently close in the sale of the ARCADIA brands to BooHoo who do not want the bricks and mortar shops.



Panther will hace to write down its property portfolio and there will be less rents as business close the next few months.

It will be lunacy to pay a dividend as the CEO indicated in last trading update but we will see, they normally make a statement in Februar.

I dont known whehter they have shops renrted to ARCADIA group but they do hacve leaases with many High Street brqnds in distresss and shops at risk of permament closure.

The Wayfairers Arcadia in Soutport is a white elephant its 50 stores mostly empty.

[russman] 06/2/2021 10:02

Value trader in a bad market.

[nickrl] 05/2/2021 14:31

debsowner the 2nd article interesting especially the view that despite distressed sale doesn't see the banks enforcing covenants on borrowers in 2021.

[debsdowner] 05/2/2021 10:30

Shopping centres and arcade plummeting in value, see this from the Times:

"A shopping centre in Coventry that eight years ago was valued at £37 million was sold this week for only £4.9 million, setting alarm bells ringing among lenders, landlords and local authorities nationwide. West Orchards' importance as the city's primary shopping destination cannot be underestimated - "It's almost our Galeries Lafayette," Trish Willetts, director of Coventry's business improvement district, said, comparing it with the landmark Paris department store - but now interest in the centre is spreading far beyond the West Midlands and what, from May 1, will be the UK's "City of Culture". - The Times

The closure of the Debenhams would have been the nail in the coffin for the arcade and its leasholders income, thus forcing them to exit the lease from the council at a knockdown price.



More on the sale here:

[debsdowner] 28/1/2021 09:14

nickt, he will be blaming everyone else instead of himself, the GOV the councils the pandemic.

But he he should have known the High Street was in decline years ago but still purchased shopping centres, now some are almost empty.

[nickrl] 27/1/2021 18:28

debsowner reckon they will probably get funds at 4-5% on sub 60% LTV although compared to what others can get its punitive.

still looking forward to the chairman's rant

[debsdowner] 27/1/2021 14:53

Panther is to announce whether it will pay a dividend in February and its increasingly unlikely now imo so no yield.

The High Street is looking like a ghost town and no one wants office space meaning less commercial interest in the business.

The banks must be very worried now about commercial property and any refinance may come at punitive rates.

[debsdowner] 19/1/2021 14:56

nick,

You make some valid comments everything needs reassessing with low interest rates but bear in mind higher yield higher risk. In the meantime HSBC just announced the closure of 82 branches further decimating the High Street and putting more downward pressure on commercial property.



There are few buyers for commercial property at the moment.

[nickrl] 19/1/2021 13:40

debsdowner HMSO are very exposed to retail and thats where the can pay but wont brigade reside so once moratorium is off they will see some recovery. I thought many propcos were overvalued for same reasons as you but have decided that the vast liquidity and declining interest rates means rational investing is being usurped by the wall of money looking for yield now. Doesn't mean im going to jump on the boat but im having reassess entry points at a higher level than i would have pre covid.

[debsdowner] 19/1/2021 12:16

No news yet on financing and in the meanwhile property stocks like Hamerson are only obtaining less that 50% of their rents. Commercial property is way overvalued which places this stock at high risk due to the high debt.

[russman] 22/12/2020 19:10

Maybe unethical but legal asset stripping.

[hennessy trades] 22/12/2020 11:27

Whiskt Green's conduct was unpalatable for some I found it wholly acceptable and would have done the same thing in the circumstances. I guess I am greedy. I dont see what being Jewish has to do with it. In any case I'm not Jewish.

[debsdowner] 22/12/2020 11:14

HT

Green was the ugly and greedy face of capitalism you seem to have no knowledge of his taking a 1.2 billion dividend out of BHS that money could have been used to invest money in the business, instead part of it went on 2 luxury yachts.

Such was his greed calls have been made numerous times to strip him of his knighthood and you supporting him shows your lack of insight into his conduct.

I maintain my comments above PG was wholly responsible for the demise of BHS and also Arcadia he has not invested in either company his greed has put thousands of employees
on the dole and also put small manufacturers at risk of going broke through loss of payments.

Perloff supporting PG is akin to the support of greedy behaviour and I would advise people to avoid this company.

Even a fellow Jew has condemned Philp Greens greed

[russman] 20/12/2020 21:25

Great traders take large calculated risks.
Returns are more volatile in the short term.
Has Perloff still got his timing.

[hennessy trades] 20/12/2020 19:05

Nothing wrong with supporting Green he was a incredibly hard worker and great Trader. What I would be interested in knowing is the actual long term rent and service charge arrears position of companies like Panther and LAP etc, including void costs and rent concessions compared to rents reserved.

[debsdowner] 20/12/2020 18:23

Further lockdowns now will affect commercial property which is well overvalued and needs to plummet as shoppers go online and office workers work from home.

Perrloff was also a supporter of Philip Green the face of capitalism and greed so I have no sympathy for Perloff company falling the way it has. He refers to Green in his historic rámblings !

[hennessy trades] 01/12/2020 20:11

The revaluation will undoubtedly affect borrowing terms negatively. Valuers are more fearful of being sued by banks than at any time in history.