Pace Plc Share Discussion Threads

[1gw] 06/9/2016 08:16

One reason I ended up with 4 ISA share accounts was the desire to spread my risk in the event of one of the providers suffering from bankruptcy or fraud. However, when I talked to an IFA about my pension transfer one comment he made was that he thought most of the providers would end up using the same 1 or 2 custodians for the shares - and it was problems with the custodians that were likely to be more serious than problems with the ISA providers. So unless I was planning to have large amounts of cash held in my ISAs then he thought there was minimal risk protection from splitting the shares between different providers, although clearly if one of them did get into trouble there might be a bit of a delay in sorting out the admin. Even with cash, where the depositor guarantee might come into play, the providers may well split cash holdings between different banks so unless you know the way they do this it is still hard to work out if a large overall cash balance is split so as to have less than the guaranteed amount in any one bank.

Having said that, as was proved by the Pace to Arris event, ISA providers will have different strengths and weaknesses and anyone who ended up with all their Pace shares in Interactive Investor for example, would have been kept out of the market much longer than someone who had split them so as to have some with Selftrade or TD.

So several factors to consider when deciding how much if at all to spread shares between different ISA providers.

[sikhthetech] 05/9/2016 20:50

Terminated.. yep, it's clear... so your trading account is currently non-Isa...

I used to have the same and also transferred money from my trading account to my shares isa over a number of years... this, of course, would be new money into a new isa...

I use my ISA for trading and building up capital.. withdrawing money if I need it...

I also have a separate SIPP... where I hold longer term shares/funds...


Transfers between spouses are also cgt free...
Also, unlike trading accounts, any losses on shares within Isas - can't claim cgt losses to carry forward to use for 'good years'...

Again, everyone's circumstances are different... consult IFA for your personal circumstances...

[terminated] 05/9/2016 20:30

Sikh: I currently have a share ISA which has the majority of my net worth in it but I also have a normal trading share dealing account which I have always kept separate. The share ISA I treat as my pension and I never touch it but my trading account I generally regard as my treat account in that I withdraw any earnings I make over 40k to spend on whatever. So currently this financial year I have about 7k profit in my treat account but should that profit go over the CGT then I have an issue. If I convert my treat account into another Share ISA (gradually over a few years) it would allow me to not have to worry about CGT but then allow me to take a max profit of 15k should I have a fortunate year. So for me it would add more CGT protection than what I have at present on my trading account only. Hope this explains my interest ;-)

[sikhthetech] 05/9/2016 19:42

The crucial point to remember about transfers...

when transferring never withdraw any cash or cash in the shares and withdraw cash...

If you do then by opening a new Isa and depositing the money, will be regarded as new money and the £15k limit will apply..

Read the rules or consult a IFA...

No advice intended...

[sikhthetech] 05/9/2016 19:39

Terminated... I'm not sure why you think you'll avoid any extra cgt by having accounts split between different providers...
all cash/shares within Isas are free from cgt, regardless of how many accounts they split between...

[sikhthetech] 05/9/2016 19:29

Terminated, yes.. the £15k limit is for new money...
I had shares and cash isas with several different providers... the reason I originally did this was to spread the Isa amongst different providers, in case one got into trouble, as happened with Northern Rock/Bradford&Bingley as few years ago...

However, after the last financial crisis the governments made major changes to savings and Isas., eg They increased the protection level. currently £75K per account and they also changed rules to ensure banks and institutions have a stronger capital base...
The rules were good enough for me to consolidate my cash Isas and transfer to 1 provider...


Read the guidelines and satisfy yourselves as whether it's suitable for you... seek professional advice...

[terminated] 05/9/2016 18:56

Wow so you are saying you can transfer unlimited cash and shares via ISA's held with different providers without taking into account the 15k limit?

If that is the case it would be far better to have my portfolio split between with 3 different ISA providers as this would add an extra element of protection (not too mention avoiding capital gains tax's) in case one provider ran into trouble.

[beaubleep] 05/9/2016 07:21

sikhthetech

Thats also my understanding, say for example I already have £50,000 of Arris in my Selftrade ISA. I could transfer £25,000 into my new TD ISA. I won't be able to trade with any of this £25,000 until the transfer is complete, this should take around 4 weeks but could take 12 weeks.

This should have halved this problem by leaving the £25,000 with Selftrade allowing me to continue dealing in Arris.

However I am moving ahead very cautiously due to another couple of understandings I have,

Hope for the best but expect the worst

plus

Shoulda, woulda, coulda are the last words of a fool.

[sikhthetech] 04/9/2016 21:53

Terminated.. it is the same for shares isas... i had shares isas with Barclays, Perpetual and HL at the same time...Regarding transfer...the £15k limit is for new money transferred into an isa..there is no transfer limit for transferring shares isa...as they are isas from previous yrs...

[terminated] 04/9/2016 21:45

Sikh: My understanding has always been you can only have one share ISA and one savings ISA open at anyone time. However having done some research it appears you can indeed open a new savings ISA each year. If this is the same for share ISA's it solves a big dilema for me.

beau: That sounds like plan but remember your ISA limit is £15,240 each year, so I would assume you can only transfer shares into that new share ISA up to the value of that each year (if you have already put into a cash ISA this year that obviously needs to be deducted). Depending on your holding that could take quite sometime.

[1gilmour] 04/9/2016 18:03

1gw
Many thanks, clear now
Best
G

[sikhthetech] 03/9/2016 20:22

Terminated..My understanding is that you can't open more than one isa per financial year...however you can transfer all or split past isas you hold...

[terminated] 03/9/2016 19:45

But Beau where are you going to transfer part of your holding to? You can't have two share ISA's operating simultaneously and if you transfer it to a normal trading account then you may be affected by capital gains tax issues.

[beaubleep] 02/9/2016 21:46

Just been on TD site and it looks like I can transfer a partial amount of each holding which after reading this:

The transfer process is usually completed within 6 weeks, however it can take up to 12 weeks depending on the investments you hold.

has to be a far better option, 3 months without being able to trade would not be nice.

[beaubleep] 02/9/2016 21:39

One other question about transferring.

Is it possible to transfer part of your ISA and not all of it e.g. If I hold 6 shares I transfer 3 to the new provider and leave 3 with the old one
Or
If I held 10,000 Lloyds, transfer only 5,000 to the new provider.

Just trying to minimise the length of time I'm out of the market. I'm asking TD the question but if anyone knows I'd appreciate it.

On another note I asked a question this morning to TD and Selftrade, 30 minutes later TD replied, I'm still waiting for Selftrade so, Terminated, I agree. I've had a good run with them but I think it's over as the saying goes 'its not me it's you'

[1gw] 02/9/2016 18:18

1gilmour - I sold some through HL recently (post 50089). When I clicked on "place a deal" it couldn't give me a firm price to sell but gave me the option of putting in a "fill or kill" order with a limit. This meant I specified the number of shares to sell and set a limit price, below which I was not prepared to deal. So for example if the price was $28.00 I might set a price of $27.50 if I wanted the deal to go through, then if the price moved down by up to 50c before HL tried to place it, it would still go through. If the price did move by more than this and they couldn't get the $27.50 then the order would be cancelled.

[1gilmour] 02/9/2016 16:54

see = sell :-)

[1gilmour] 02/9/2016 16:51

Thanks to all for posts
I am a bit confused as to what a limit order is; I'm aware of limit and stop orders forex but equities seems to be different.
Clarification would be greatly appreciated.
I want to see a few to get an understanding of what's happening in a transaction.
I'm with HL so any advice specific to their dealing requirements would be especially welcome.
GLA as always
Gil

[terminated] 02/9/2016 16:35

Just trying to sell some more Arris now, I can't get a real time price I have to set a limit way below current valuation because if they can't get that price straight away they cancel it instantly. Very poor working practices for dealing in foreign stocks. Compare that to my TD Waterhouse account which I needed to upgrade to an international account in order to deal in Arris and I can get real time price, more importantly I get a real time quote and firm off or I can set a fill or kill with a date limit. Selftrade need to get their act together.

[beaubleep] 02/9/2016 15:24

Also TD seem to execute limit buys and sells whereas Selftrade seem a little slack. This slackness has worked in a positive and negative way but I think I might be ready to move to someone who does what they say they will.

[1gw] 02/9/2016 14:27

o/t - ISA transfers.

I've just pushed the button (or more accurately put the form in the post box) on a transfer of my Interactive Investors ISA to Barclays, so I'll try to remember to update when it has completed. I fell out with Interactive Investors over their problems and communication concerning the conversion of Pace shares into (New) Arris. Barclays is supposed to reimburse transfer costs, but isn't much good if you want to move Arris shares because you can't hold "foreign" investments in their ISA. I have already sold the Arris shares I held with II.

I am waiting on a possible Selftrade to TD transfer as Selftrade are still promising to come back to me on my complaint with them. So I plan to see what they say before deciding on the transfer. They do impose exit charges as per beaubleep's post above and TD don't reimburse these charges, but if I can save 1.5% to 2% on the cost of selling my Arris shares then that will be net positive for me. TD Direct is also more flexible in buying and selling Arris shares as you are not limited to hours when the (UK-based) brokers are in the office.

[beaubleep] 01/9/2016 21:00

With regard transferring to another broker

From Selftrade
Please note that a charge of £15 per line of stock to transfer out of Selftrade is applicable and will take 2-6 weeks to complete dependant on which assets are to be transferred.

From TD
The Transfer from start to finish will take approximately 4 weeks. The process is controlled by your existing broker, we as the accepting broker cannot initiate the transfer process until your broker is in a position to transfer out.
This involves co-operation from your exiting broker and there are a number of stages in the process as described below

Unless I'm mistaken once the process is underway and until completion, you are unable to trade.
When I did this a few years ago Barclays took over 8 weeks to transfer my shares to Selftrade.

Does anyone have a different experience?