Orchid Developments Share Discussion Threads

[luckynickyboy] 04/12/2012 15:17

roughandtumbleone 3 Dec'12 - 21:19 - 5 of 7 0 0

MarkT.

How many threads do you have to start? If you were trying to dilute physical interest in any stock, I'd congratulate you on successfully boring me to death.

You've made your case, you've started 4 threads and you've put across your allegations. I still haven't read anything you've received from Guy/Ofer,Henderson, Midas, Progressive, Value etc... have you an idea of their stance?

Have you ascertained the purpose of the London mtgs this week?

I thought the purpose of your weekend thread was to fill it with your posts? Now you're filling threads, with more threads! Well done you.

LuckyNickyBoy 4 Dec'12 - 10:18 - 6 of 7 0 0 edit

hey Rough, so sick of seeing markt so I came on when I saw it was you posting (as you normally have something worth reading) - only to see all you were doing was having a go at markt for all his threads! oh, the irony.. :-)

[luckynickyboy] 04/12/2012 10:18

hey Rough, so sick of seeing markt so I came on when I saw it was you posting (as you normally have something worth reading) - only to see all you were doing was having a go at markt for all his threads! oh, the irony.. :-)

[roughandtumbleone] 03/12/2012 21:19

MarkT.How many threads do you have to start? If you were trying to dilute physical interest in any stock, I'd congratulate you on successfully boring me to death.You've made your case, you've started 4 threads and you've put across your allegations. I still haven't read anything you've received from Guy/Ofer,Henderson, Midas, Progressive, Value etc... have you an idea of their stance? Have you ascertained the purpose of the London mtgs this week? I thought the purpose of your weekend thread was to fill it with your posts? Now you're filling threads, with more threads! Well done you.

[markt] 03/12/2012 18:26

Bricky .
can you change your post to be same style as Jack's, simple yes or no and number of votes, and please no ramping on this thread, just for votes )

[bricktycoon] 03/12/2012 18:19

Yes yes yes buy buy buy 10 p bid imminent

[jack1236] 03/12/2012 16:40

Resoln. 1 No

Resoln. 2 No

214513 shares

Won't be taking up entitlement.

[markt] 03/12/2012 14:02

RNS from large shareholder in MWB

effectively making public various complaints about the conduct of the MWB bod



----

If us OCH shareholders could join with IIs....then we should, imo, be issuing a similar notice....ASAP....this week.....

in part to
- stake out claim
- stop the EGM process (which , together with the offer document, could be argued to be misrepresentation of facts/fraudulent/rule breaking


but at present we have just under 5% and it appears that we need 10% to have a voice wrt calling an EGM
---

Anyone want to find out how many votes are needed to issue an RNS ?

[markt] 03/12/2012 13:44

MWB
scburbs 26 Nov'12 - 13:11 - 479 of 482

"Another example of incentive schemes designed by and for management and not aligned with shareholder interests? "

EXACTLY the same as what we think is happening at OCH.


---
"THREE directors of MWB Business Exchange, the serviced office provider, have shared more than £3m in bonuses despite a steep fall in the share price."








----

With organised fraud....the only solution imo is the submit allegations to the SFO...and hope that the SFO/CPS carry out an prosecution.

The number of cases is so widespread....that the AIM/LSE regulators appear to be complices.....and hence one can not expect them to do anything

[markt] 03/12/2012 13:40

I recommend this post over on the MWB thread.

MWB is a property/hotel company similar to OCH.....officially has high assets and high debts.....and cant pay its creditors

MWB shares are suspended....and I think it is now in administration

there is and always has been for MWB !, a large number of allegations against the dirs. of MWB (the exec. dirs. have left)


WilliamGTheobald 26 Nov'12 - 21:35 - 480 of 482

[markt] 03/12/2012 13:34

Joe
well, if I had a large holding like you...and if I had paid a lot for it...

and if there is a meeting on the 6th...

then if I was you I would be e-mailling, faxing and phoning the IIs to lobby them to get my (your) opinions to the IIs
---

Can I interest you to vote on the YES or NO thread ?

----

God Almighty
....rumour I heard was that he has cut a % deal with AIM, in return for not dishing out any punishments ! ;-)

[markt] 03/12/2012 12:59

Bump/Knigel/Joebloggs et al

have any one of you chaps/chappeses taken any positive action....or do you plan to ?

letters, e-mails, phone calls etc


If other people are being active then I am willing to continue to be active (I have tried to pull a few strings to try to get some action....regulators etc)

but if no one else is willing to try to stir up regulators or police into action....then it doesnt motivate me to keep trying...especially when my shareholding is good bit smaller than yours

(I have around 160k shares...at around 3.5p average I think....if I lose the money its not a big deal.....(but I am furious about feeling that the dirs. are trying to rob me !, whether it is peanuts or millions)

one of you said you have over 50k pnds invested....imo you should be motivated to be written messages, letters, faxes, and making phonecalls to the IIs to try to get them to act the way you want them to

[markt] 03/12/2012 12:54

some notes/observations to Lazarus post

(Laz. has made some good valid points imo

points which imo we should all take note of

(but of course they do not g'tee a specific outcome or future for OCH, only the future will tell us, ...but !...financial data can give us some info about the odds imo that OCH will go in one way or the other)


Lazarus
"One of the major problems is the weather, great in the summer but end Sept the tourist trade is finished, not like Spain where many visitors still arrive for winter sun, and even with their extended tourist season, Spain is also in dire straits due to lax planning laws and a free for all in the apartment sector. A attack at Burgas airport hasn't helped with the tourist trade.
Also note the current EU budget arguments, with eastern European countries saying the budget needs to increase as they need more investment. With EU funds drying up, there will be less spent on infrastruucture and hence fewer jobs etc."


1) Following on from this

a) note. Apartment prices in Spain have crashed.
There are auctions for apartments being repossesed by the banks.
70KE is a price that is happening, Alicante coastline...

prices of course vary massively between the historic centre of a pretty town, with shops, cafes and people......and the prices on an estate on a hill out of town with many empty homes and ghostown appearrance

For Russians, Bulgaria has to compete with Spain.
Spain is not condsidering to offer residency permission to Ruskies and CHinese that buy an apartment costing over 160kE.

Bulgaria is closer to Russia....some Russians may prefer that.
etc etc


b) in 2005-2007 the future looked bright for Romania and Bulgaria.
It has all changed....and the future at present does not look so bright.
(partly since the EU cashflow to pump up those countries looks now like it may not happen...or be much smaller)

Although perhaps better than Spain, Greece, Ireland, Portugal !!

c) these things of course do not stop Bulgarians buying apartments/offices from OCH if they want...even if Russian demand falls.

[markt] 03/12/2012 12:45

BTW

the following post on the main long term OCH thread is worth reading imo...
about the property sector and mall sector in Bulgaria

Lazarus2010 24 Nov'12 - 08:50 - 8870 of 8907

[markt] 03/12/2012 12:42

markt 30 Nov'12 - 20:01 - 8891 of 8907


Thaarg

"They couldn't organise a sale of ANY assets to prevent the current situation arising so why on earth do they credit themselves with enough ability to assume they will be able to sell anything in the next 12 months?

Laughable!

The only saving grace is that the BoD stand to lose a lot more than I do on this share, and their jobs (if you can call sitting on your hands and watching your business go bust a job).

It is no more than they deserve."


Some good points.
but
"so why on earth do they credit themselves with enough ability to assume they will be able to sell anything in the next 12 months"

imho
please be aware that with this share offer, if it goes voted through (I think not) they will move a lot of the ownership of the land company (no debt) and the hotel company (no debt) from normal shareholders to themselves

They can then at a time that suits them.....do a demerger of the hotel and of the land.

(and then in 5-10 years time....bring the land back to market....photocopy the OCH IPO, which valued 5M of assets at 40M !!
and if they own 73% of it.....they will be laughing all the way to the bank.

(sadly if such a thing was to happen, it would be friends, neighbours of the current shareholders that would be subscribing the future IPO !!
as more lambs get lined up for the slaughter !

while the regulators watch it all and do nothing !

[markt] 03/12/2012 12:40

markt 30 Nov'12 - 19:46 - 8889 of 8907


B3thany

thanks for your typed pat on the back !
....nice to get, since feel I have been slogging through oil/tar...and any progress has been difficult

and I see that various posters are now posting opinions the same as I have been arguing for days.....so maybe I will be able to get the ship to go the direction I want !
(sadly the IIs are not participating or supporting so far, they may be arranging to do their own deal with the directors....I'm such a cynic ! due to experience)
----

Info has gone to the authorities....claiming that various regulations/laws are bing broken....but no one has much confidence in the UK authorities for share related stuff.


----

"Hence my conclusion a possible attempt to take the company private on the cheap or cherry picking asset/s post liquidation and cash call in the near future. May I hasten to add these are my observations based on experience playing the stock market.

Maybe you and others could each contribute towards hiring a financial advisor/ broker/analyst to ascertain the true value of Och assets especially the Grand Mall and Och commercial viability before risking more capital. Good luck!"


I had a similar thought. We could easily raise say 1k, hopefully enough to pay a lawyer to submit some legal paper....perhaps a 'stop' injunction to AIM or the registrar or !

For 5% of the shares to generate 1000 pnds, it wouldnt cost much for each person. Joebloggs at 1% would have to put up 200 quid.

I have suggested that the bigger investors decide if they want to be active and do anything (noting that 2 people stepped out of out block of votes since they didnt like the hassle/stress)......so the ball is an extent in their court.
If apathy rules then I cant do anything about it (if people are working full time then I understand that time is difficult). Or maybe the bigger investors will put some time into it this weekend....we'll see.

[markt] 03/12/2012 12:40

markt 30 Nov'12 - 19:33 - 8887 of 8907
"I think the share price has been walked down with bad news to benefit them."

Ah ha, some opinions that agree with my general arguments.

(if the dirs. took their salaries as shares at 4.5p instead of at 2.25p
then they would get 1/2 the number of shares......1/2 the amount of the assets in the hotel and in the land (with no debt)


trying to convert their salaries to shares close to the lowest share price that
OCH has ever been at.....imho a fraud/dodgy deal

(UK Company Act 2006, requires dirs. to operate any co. for the general benefit of the sharesholders....not for the benefit of themselves !
but OCH is a Cayman Is. co.....imo it is not required to comply with the UK Company Act 2006
but I would have expected the Cayman law to say something similar

or Cayman Is. law says
'Cayman Island dirs. can shaft their shareholders whenever they want and in any country of the world !)

[markt] 03/12/2012 12:27

Another new idea....

instead of the idea to demerge the hotel and the land companies...and give to shareholders pro rata, at no cost....

is to demerge the other companies....and LEAVE the hotel and land companies inside OCH....at same time as removing the bod for gross misconduct with compensation

in that way the shareholders in the hotel and the land would be able to buy/sell the shares they have....with the listing still existing....and since no debt for these 2 parts...I think there would be littel problem to remove the suspension and keep the listing. (the parts with debt having been demerged)

[markt] 03/12/2012 12:24

BTW
Note that there are "capitalisation " shares in the Dec EGM share offer.

Capitalisation shares receive, imo, payment in case of a takeover or imo a wind up of OCH

previously it was wrt to 20p (this now changes with the numbers of shares being changed to 250M authorised, if the EGM votes yes)

So, if wind up happens at 2p/share then each cap. share from Feb would get 20-2p = 18p....AND !! imo also the 2p to each share

---

imo the capital. shares are better for the purposes of the dirs. since
- they help get them control of the co. (which gives them better chance to keep getting 300KE each per year....and to be there at any split up of OCH to make sure they get the most possible !)

- they get the say 18p before any shareholder gets say 2p

- the 18p situation means they are a creditor to OCH...hence they get paid in full before any OCH shareholder gets 1 penny

- the cap. shares pay out twice. wrt to 20p...AND also any distribution to shareholders

---

It is imo an intricate and pre-planned scheme...by the 2 exec. dirs.
...with the complicity of the bod and esp. the chairman (who, surprise surprise will leave if the EGM votes yes, then it is much harder to take any legal action against him; recommending to vote YES to benefit the 2 dirs is imo illegal, since imo the offer is clearly to benefit the 2 exec. dirs and to remove benefit/assets from shareholders)
Shore Capital are also part of the team....they will get inside information...and also approx. 200-300k pnds (or more ?) for doing the share offer.

[markt] 02/12/2012 20:34

Bump/Knigel/Joegloggs etc

the other main option I think we have...is to team up with an II to get over 10%...and then be able to issue an RNS perhaps asking

- for the offer doc. to be declared a misrepresentation of the facts and hence request its withdrawal

- for the dirs. to step down for gross misconduct

- for the chairman's recommendation to take up the offer to be declared a misrepresentation/false and hence illegal and hence withdraw the offer doc.

- or similar


Even an RNS wildly critical of the bod and the offer process....would be useful imo even if it does not manage to stop the offer process. This/that is what Pyrho investments did at MWB. X weeks later the exec. dirs. left !

(MWB msg brd is worth a read imo....)

[markt] 02/12/2012 20:18

Bump/Knigel
imo ...that the dirs. propose to be allowed to vote for resolution 2 looks illegal imo

since it will give benefit to them personally

Perhaps this is another thing we could try to get the regulators to act on.

(if we can remove the dirs. from voting on resol. 2 then it removes 30% of the possible votes. and if only 80% of the votes are cast, then the 30% becomes 37.5%
...to get over 66% they would need around 29%

they still need a big chunk.....personally I doubt they would get it.

----

if the resolutions are rejected....then there is still a chance that the bod can be removed and a bonus issue of shares in the hotel and the land company can happen...so shareholders would get something back, with no debt....and new dirs

If the GM and Orchid Gdns survive or not....imo just up to the banks
O. Gdns..unless OCH pulls a rabbit out of the hat !!..the banks will not imo allow the Gdns loan to continue with the building being 90% empty..unless start getting some significant sales..and the debt size just getting bigger and bigger

(the banks could perhaps offer low interest rate 100% loan ...and manage to sell some apartments, after they owned Gdns directly.....an option imo that looks not to be in OCHs hands...)


the GM, imo the banks will be quite happy to let OCH keep managing it for free or at low cost !....they own it anyway !...they have no need/desire to manage it imo !..and the expensive dirs. are probably quite happy as well !

Note the interest rate starts going up in Sept 2013. I think around 5% now, in Sept 2014 it will be 7% if the contract is observed (unless OCH can move 50% of the debt to new lenders, not going to happen imo since there is imo a loss wrt to the debt size)...and 9% in 2015

1/2% a quarter

the GM can not, imo support it.....the banks are I assume quite happy to slowly nail/milk it !