Lloyds Banking Share Discussion Threads

[exlogicalad] 15/12/2018 14:08

No wonder 95% of traders lose money, sleepwalking into a no deal.

Monty, you are in a constant comatose.

Of course you are correct Monty...actually 100% of traders lose money, 100% make money. Another day another deal, there is a thing called going short available to you. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[k38] 15/12/2018 13:58

g2I don't know why you have problem open the link but each time i post it I click and it's open alright for me .

[careful] 15/12/2018 13:49

More complex than that.
This trade deal which we a trying to get with the EU. after Brexit,
frictionless tariff free trade with the EU. (as now) seems impossible.
The EU. trade deals are all about protection and tariffs. (As USA/JAPAN/CHINA).

Take Japanese made cars for example. They have a 12% tariff into the EU. If they wish to sell cars into the EU. tariff free they have to make them in the EU.
This was great for the UK, huge inward investment by Toyota and Nissan creating thousands of jobs for years.

What if we allowed Japan to import their cars tariff free after Brexit.
Do you really think the EU. would allow them to be shipped into the EU.?

JRM says it will be a great opportunity for Nissan and Toyota (at the time they were so worried they were meeting Theresa May.) That man knows nothing about trade.

[grahamite2] 15/12/2018 13:45

I don't know why your links never work, k38!



Now over 80,000. It seemed to have stalled a bit when I looked earlier but is now moving briskly. It could easily reach target before today is out.

[mr.elbee] 15/12/2018 13:24

Eire does exactly what the EU says.. If Eire suffers as a result of an EU instigated trade war what do you honestly think she could do? The teashop is a weak, pathetic individual, and his country is being used right now...as it would be in a trade war..which is definitely coming with the No deal scenario.

It really amuses me when no one is prepared to discuss this sensibly. Europe is falling apart...countries will soon be queuing up to leave..How can the EU stop this?

Answer? Make the British pay with an effective economic blockade...even at the necessary cost to their member states.. this is Real politik..this is what is NOT being discussed.

[k38] 15/12/2018 13:21

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/229963If no delivered this weekend there is no point of this petitionAndIt is stupid to believe, as some of you suggesting, EU will start a trade war.

[poikka] 15/12/2018 13:00

I've got BIG ISSUES with the earlier abridged comments from The Spectator.

Leaving aside the fall-back issue, which is a bug-bear, a lot of the points made by The Spectator appear to be without foundation. This sudden enlightening on my part comes after reading the parts of the WA that TS referred to.

Certainly, the WA isn't perfect from our POV, but it does get us out of the EU, albeit at a cost, but allows us to make our own trading arrangements.

Still wading through it, but the inconsistencies contained within TS article are worrying.

[careful] 15/12/2018 12:44

The second referendum could only achieve something if the turnover was large, greater than last times 72%, and the result was the same as before...or,
A much lager remain vote with a much widere margin of victory would also make it acceptable.

It should be made final by act of parliament, no more referenda on this topic, from now on parliament decides as in the past.
Amusing that parliament can declare war without a referendum, and yet needs guidance on a complex trading arrangement .

We would all have to accept the second result, although you can never placate or satisfy dedicated Brexiteers.

[grahamite2] 15/12/2018 12:33

People used to have trays on their desks marked in, out and pending - with pending really meaning "too difficult."

All a second referendum would do is shuffle a current problem into the too difficult tray. It wouldn't achieve anything - how could it?

[patientcapital] 15/12/2018 12:32

An EU instigated trade war against us will not happen for one simple reason. Eire, as a member, would see disproportionate economic hardship and food supply problems as a direct consequence. There is no way on earth that this would be sanctioned. The fuss being made by the EU over non existent border concerns amply demonstrates how sensitive Eire is.

[mr.elbee] 15/12/2018 12:26

"Secondly, with the EU economy showing signs of faltering, they're not going to want to rock the boat further, or if they do they'll get a rocket from business on their side."

a rocket wont bother bureaucrats at all.......in fact economic troubles in Europe could all be blamed on the UK[ as the Irish teashop has already publicly said..it is all our fault..Italy/France/ S[pain...it is because the English are unreasonable!.]


The EU has calulated a price which the member states will have to pay for a no deal scenario.

[mikemichael2] 15/12/2018 11:43

I wonder why some struggle with certain cultural identity ?

[ak47high] 15/12/2018 11:41

Careful, I’m not sure May has set the entire thing up to fail with the aim of forcing a second referendum but I can’t see anyway forward if her deal gets voted down other than a second referendum.

This is a decent read hxxps://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/

[poikka] 15/12/2018 11:21

Careful - "But what if the EU. gets tough and hostile and it is prepared to take a hit. A full blown trade war. This would destroy us and they would suffer also, but less so.
We should not provoke them too much."

Firstly, the EU are already playing tough - see the WA.

Secondly, with the EU economy showing signs of faltering, they're not going to want to rock the boat further, or if they do they'll get a rocket from business on their side.

Lastly, it's not a case of provoking them, it's a case of not paying for something until you know that you're going to get it.

The EU say that we have nothing to be concerned about and that they will negotiate "in good faith", yet their clauses belie their words; so in recognition of the EU's actions thus far, and in recognition of their frustrating clauses, it's extremely sensible to be cautious. Any business would do the same.

[poikka] 15/12/2018 11:13

Careful - "If I make the heroic assumption that May is not stupid, then what is she up to?"

That's the question that's been puzzling most thinkers.

Here's a possibility - being a woman, she tries to navigate a consensual course. She also wishes to Leave with good relations with the EU bureaucrats. That's about the sum of it IMO.

Trouble is that, as has been said, some of those bureaucrats won't be in office by the end of next year. Another problem is that their aims are completely at odds with the referendum's mandate; so she really has to change tack with them.

A glimmer of hope was when she lost her cool with Claude the other day. I don't blame her: the way he treats women, and men, by man-handling them wouldn't pass muster in any business, or anywhere really, and to wear a green tie in support of Ireland at their meeting was so provocative!

[careful] 15/12/2018 11:04

Charles Moore writes in todays Daily Telegraph and argues that no deal would be fine.
He is a Tory toff, ex Eton, no doubt would not be affected by no deal and aka 'lord Snooty' as he is known, would no doubt be glad if someone from his old school could take charge again.
Born to lead and all of that.

I worry that the hard Brexit no deal brigade who want withheld our £9bn payments for the next 4 years (£35-£39bn), are taking a terrible risk.
They are prepared to take a hit financially, there is no price on freedom etc, (or more accurately prepared for others to take a hit.)

But what if the EU. gets tough and hostile and it is prepared to take a hit. A full blown trade war. This would destroy us and they would suffer also, but less so.
We should not provoke them too much.

[patientcapital] 15/12/2018 10:52

Agreed. But, even as partners within the EU, we have always been competitors. Better to be that without one or two arms tied behind our backs though.

[careful] 15/12/2018 10:30

Yes I agree, the EU. tactic is to force a second referendum, no doubt aided by the likes of Blair and others.
But May is a mystery to me, she must know that tactic she could not be that stupid.
If I gave her any credit, then she must know her trip to Brussels was a waste of time.
I assume she is on the telephone to them all the time anyway.

If I make the heroic assumption that May is not stupid, then what is she up to?
Is her secret aim a second referendum also?

[careful] 15/12/2018 09:59

Patient
Quoting the likes of Kate Hoey is desperate.
My dustbin man says 'professional and efficient EU bureaucrats' and a 'capable prime minister'.

Lets think things out for ourselves, these people are not worth quoting.

[patientcapital] 15/12/2018 09:52

Sky - summed up succinctly "Labour's Kate Hoey is critical of "jumped up EU bureaucrats" and a "complicit prime minister"."

[careful] 15/12/2018 09:36

The above is what Redwood and Brexiteers want, we all know that.
but most of big business and people in manufacturing aerospace food processing Pharma and many other wish to stay much closer to the customs union.
Labour want to stay in the customs union.
SDP want to remain.

Why does Redwood and the others go on and on, it is a hopeless stalemate.

[bargainbob] 15/12/2018 09:35

Jacko ,

Was at the The Proclaimers last night in Stirling as it happens .

Cap in hand went down a storm .

Speaking of Harry Enfield this character reminds me of you .

[diku] 15/12/2018 09:34

In other words a complete U turn after 2 years!...