Leeds Share Discussion Threads

[arthur_lame_stocks] 26/1/2006 15:53

I think they can do £1m pre tax, that's after the interest on the £2m or so of debt that Hemmers Has. Hemmers also owes the holding company about 800K (I think, i'll have to check it might be 600k).

Also I think i'm right in saying that the holding company has a load of tax losses which can be offset against future profit, but they can't use them against Hemmers profit which is taxed at the German rate of 40%. So it makes sense to me to keep some debt in Hemmers (again from memory, but the interest rate they are paying on their Euro debt is only about 4.5%) which will reduce the tax they pay, whilst keeping the cash in the holding company which should earn interest tax free.

I would guess too that they will be able to apportion more of their central costs to Hemmers now that it is the only operating subsidiary, for example audit costs and such like, but i'm not an accountant so I can't swear to it. Hopefully these two things will help lower the effective tax rate they pay.

[cambium] 26/1/2006 15:22

About time for a new thread

[cockneyrebel] 26/1/2006 15:20

I think that's right TOB.

Either way if you took the lower figure or the higher figure the cash looks for free to me if they do the 1m op profit that looks likely imo.



CR

[tiredoldbroker] 26/1/2006 15:11

Hemmers has net external debt of £2.4m, unsecured and without recourse to the parent company (something any valuation of LDSG and what they might net if Hemmers was sold really has to take into account). But because of the way debt is structured, this isn't part of the parent company's liabilities and so if the group has net cash in excess of £3m, the parent company has cash in excess of £5.4m - at least, that's my reading of it. Any other views ?

[wjccghcc] 26/1/2006 14:31

Question - they talk about 5.5mm cash reserves in the parent company (15p per share) but only net cash of 3mm after the disposal, giving net cash of about 8.5p per share. Is that correct?

[ptolemy] 26/1/2006 14:23

I don't follow closely and don't hold but it does look undervalued. Did notice that on 20 Dec you said there are tax credits and no tax likely in 2006.

[cockneyrebel] 26/1/2006 13:57

If they chip in 1m op profit this year that's around £750K after tax say.

You'd be looking at these being worth the current market cap for the profit alone nearly - the cash is is bunce more or less imo.

CR

[langland] 26/1/2006 13:54

Hemmers operating profit last year was 741k so, if business is 25% ahead and operating margins are maintained, we should get close to 1mn this year. Here's hoping.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 26/1/2006 13:52

blimey chessfou have I really been a Leeds shareholder that long?

[chessfou] 26/1/2006 13:48

Intraday high of 23p 16 July 2004 (also the previous day's closing price) - doesn't time fly ...
;-)

[arthur_lame_stocks] 26/1/2006 13:43

CR I used to be a WGB shareholder, I followed them for ages, and finally bought in after they bought Sandersons but I got impatient and sold at a small loss, shame really i'd be up 50%+ by now if i'd held on.

leeds up on today's news. I think this must be the highest they've been for a long time.

[jhan66] 26/1/2006 13:30

seems rare that all them ducks line up so neatly:
lots of cash + buoyant trading still on-going + stong future prospects (+ relatively low share price)

one of my favourtite phrases `considerable degree of confidence'
along with `would you like another?'

[cockneyrebel] 26/1/2006 13:26

you ever looked at WGB? Another unrealised value play I reckon, directors been buying quite heavy.

CR

[arthur_lame_stocks] 26/1/2006 13:22

Yeah i'm happy with that, hopefully CG will give us a report from the AGM, although I don't expect Leeds to be all that forthcoming with news since they never are.

[cockneyrebel] 26/1/2006 13:16

Great one - 30p+ a share when they tell us what they are doing with all that cash :-)

CR

[the vogon] 26/1/2006 13:04

Issued on behalf of Leeds Group plc
Date: Thursday, 26 January 2006
IMMEDIATE RELEASE



Leeds Group plc
Annual General Meeting



At today's Annual General Meeting, Vin Murria, Non-Executive Chairman, told
shareholders:

'In our preliminary results announcement on 20 December 2005, we stated that the
new financial year had begun well with results to date showing a continuation of
the strong sales and incoming orders experienced in the second half of the
previous year.

'I am pleased to report that the results of the first quarter of the current
year were encouraging with sales in that period by the Group's continuing
business exceeding last year's levels by 25%. With an order book that remains at
a record level, we face the future with a considerable degree of confidence.

'In addition, following the sale of Leeds Leasing plc to Bibby Asset Finance
Ltd, the Board continues to explore possible ways to apply the cash resources at
its disposal for the benefit of shareholders and will make further announcements
in due course as appropriate.'

All resolutions were duly passed.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 24/1/2006 16:41

Me too. Or perhaps just if you can find out anything about whether or not they've decided what to do with that 5.5m cash they're sitting on, or when they might let us know their decision.

I'm sure I can think of some others. I hope you don't mind, I bet you're the only small shareholder there (maybe the mysterious Emslies will turn up).

[langland] 24/1/2006 16:36

Poacher...just to interrupt. I would like to know if there is an ongoing sale process for Hemmers and what price they are trying to achieve!!

[poacher45] 24/1/2006 16:10

Are there any questions you would like me to ask the board???

[arthur_lame_stocks] 23/1/2006 14:32

Thanks poacher, I decided to leave Lupus alone, since I just ended up arguing the same points over and over, it's easier to agree to differ.

Anyway if you got rid of most of them at 20p you did bloody well out of it.

[poacher45] 22/1/2006 10:15

As you have been a good boy this year Arthur and not been on the Lupus sight and yes I still have the patience of Job. I will give you all a full report. Just for the record I do have only 39% left of my Lupus shares of which 80% I knocked out at 20p. In hindsight I was just too greedy.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 21/1/2006 11:55

Any chance of letting us know how it goes poacher?

[jhan66] 20/1/2006 19:13

agm 11:30 26/1/06. Neville Street Leeds.

judging by the comment below, I hope hope Hemmers is still strongly positive-

`Although it is of course early days, we are pleased that the current financial
year has opened strongly with sales in October and November 20% ahead of last
year and with an order book that, at this stage of the year, is fuller than it
has ever been.'