Kier Share Discussion Threads

[stdyeddy] 12/7/2022 13:14

'forks, I've posted my reply to you on the main discussion board.

[ontheforks] 12/7/2022 11:14

Something doesn't add up with the share price people are buying and the price goes down but then more sell and the price goes up and no wally and your crew not interested in your opinion as you have no cred if I wanted to read nonsense I'd go to motley fool good luck longs 👍🏻

[stdyeddy] 12/7/2022 10:42

You are consistently wrong and have been slagging kier off for three years like a disgruntled/sacked former employee, so I think sensible people can ignore your 'conclusions'. What is more likely after all of the cost-cutting and asset sales is that the business will show a decent profit and good cash generation. If it makes something like £40m for the last half, the share price could easily double from here and if Davies upgrades the forecast revenue due to the large number of contracts being won, it might even treble. Kier has trebled before from this kind of level. We shall see next week.

[zicopele] 12/7/2022 10:19

Kier was particularly brutal in June, holding back payment from suppliers and subcontractors.

Cash generation must be very poor.

[stdyeddy] 11/7/2022 15:57

'beginner' -- Andrew Davies has a habit of being dour and reserved, so I doubt there will be fireworks. Looking at other results in the sector recently, my guess is that inflationary impact on the business will be small and Kier will have turned a decent profit for the first time in three years. Key figures will be net debt for year end and cash generation. Hard to make a prediction currently, but Kier's new management team has been working towards better outcomes for several years now and there's a reasonable chance that we will finally see some positives after three years of writedowns.

[stdyeddy] 11/7/2022 15:49

A deluge of bullsh1t from trolls.

[stdyeddy] 11/7/2022 15:47

Evidently you are a genius. If you have any further stunning revelations, like whether the sun will rise in the east tomorrow, or your predictions on where bears will be going to defecate, please let us know. I'm sure everyone here will be enthralled and grateful.

[stutes] 11/7/2022 15:35

hxxps://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/58d3eb82-005d-11ed-809e-d123192dfb7c?shareToken=d3a9474dd80fbca441c03eef91ef1e3b

I think it is only a matter of time before all firms face margin squeeze and higher interest bills.

[1beginner] 11/7/2022 13:13

According to Kier’s financial calendar, they are due to release a trading statement on Tuesday of next week. What do we think the outcome will be of this?

[ppreston1] 11/7/2022 08:41

Indeed stdyeddy. The Persimmon comments are consistent with what MJ Gleeson also reported this morning in their trading update. FY results are expected to be significantly ahead of expectations. Here's an excerpt...'Strong selling price increases offset significant material and labour cost increases experienced across the sector in the period. Availability of labour and materials eased throughout the second half of the year'.

[stdyeddy] 07/7/2022 16:40

Really? Or are you just trolling again? Because this is what Persimmon said -- it expects to complete 14,500 to 15,000 homes in 2022, compared with 14,551 last year. [IN OTHER WORDS, NO CHANGE!!!]

The firm said first-half profits would be slightly HIGHER than expected because house price inflation has offset rises in build costs. Its average selling price increased by 4% year on year to £245,600 in the first half, reflecting strong demand and a reduction in the proportion of homes sold to its housing association partners.

[In other words, Persimmon only had to raise prices by 4% to offset inflation. See Kier's inflation strategy, explained last month by Andrew Davies on youtube. Kier will have it covered easily.]

[stutes] 07/7/2022 15:36

hxxps://www.constructionenquirer.com/2022/07/07/persimmon-build-rates-fall-amid-material-and-labour-shortages/

The warning of margin squeezecamnot be ignored.

[eriktherock] 05/7/2022 21:24

'Hope' is unlikely to prevent the continuing slow death of kier. It's a legacy of course.

[wallywoo] 05/7/2022 21:21

Share price looks firmly in downtrend to me. Double bottom formation is only confirmed if this breaks north of 74ish with high volume.


In a market where there are lots of high dividend bargains, who have long successful track records:: why would you buy this??? Poor record, no dividends, lots of risk, terrible balance sheet.


Been busy today picked up ezt, hbr, phoenix, rmg, brwm, itv. Solid balance sheet high dividends (not ezt yet), blue chip bargains imo to hold for medium term.

[hamhamham1] 05/7/2022 16:08

This down 1% today, not bad, some down 10%

[ppreston1] 05/7/2022 08:28

A bullish double bottom has clearly formed on the price chart. Looking forward to a change in direction now.

[stutes] 04/7/2022 08:14

hxxps://www.constructionenquirer.com/2022/07/04/willmott-dixon-hikes-provision-for-recladding-work-to-61m/

HMG have washed their hands of any liability for approving the cladding. Now contractors are on the hook to pay for recladding- shareholders taking the hit again.

[wallywoo] 02/7/2022 13:56

Well it's a good job I currently own neither easyjet or Kier. Though am considering buying easyjet because.

(The reasons why I discuss other shares on here is to demonstrate there are good buys out there but Kier isn't one.)

1) EJ have a strong balance sheet (£2B tangible net assets, compared to -£175m for Kier)

2) EJ revenue will be up from virtually nothing to £5b +, with more to follow. So will rapidly recover to pre covid state roughly now in term of business. The industry/ sector is highly thought of and very investable. Construction has a terrible reputation.

3) EJ are great value today for obvious non company fault reasons (covid). Kier lost money (cash) before, during and after covid

You say that Kier have not lost cash but have just written off assets. The balance sheet clearly shows that is not true. Written off assets applies to bad debts, selling assets cheap and clearing off intangible assets. Kier still have £693m of intangible assets (worthless) and only written off a tiny amount. They wrote off KL assets because they could not sell them for their balance sheet value. The balance sheet clearly shows they have just lost hard cash. This is the reason why after raising £836m in 3 equity issues they have no better balance sheet than 6 years ago, in fact it is worse along with 800+ percent more shares (55m to 446m). Easyjet issued a much more reasonable 65 percent equity issue at 410 to recover from a extreme scenario (£5b revenue to virtually none). In essence EJ will clearly recover in time, Kier are still in extreme difficulties.

[itisonlymoney] 02/7/2022 12:43

all those things are true of easyjet too, but even worse. easyjet has lost billions over the last two years, has about a billion in debt, lost £500m in the last two quarters and is reliant on consumers, who will be tightening their belts.

kier has government spending behind it, the only spending that happens in a recession. as for smaller firms going broke, yep that's happening, but that only adds to kiers reputation as one of the biggest and a reliable business that can raise cash if it needs it. as you pointed out, kier has raised cash many times. small firms can't.

also kier is well funded now and the shareprice is at an all time low if you take the last cash raise and shares out. it is literally in small pennies. but the business is winning tons of new contracts and increasing profit margin every reporting period. the only reason you say 'losing cash' is cos kier has been writing off massive amounts, but that has to be at the end by now.

way back looking at your posts, the amount of shorts on kier was a big thing and you went on about it constantly. well look at the shorts on kier now. zero. and the shorts on easyjet are going up and up, one of the most shorted on the market. what's clear is that you ahve blinkers on and just slag kier off all the time. makes no difference. the numbers will be reveal how the business really is. update a few weeks, maybe even a fortnight. full numbers a few weeks after that. i don't see it going much lower now. looking fwd to seeing the facts, not just you doommongering like you have been for what? two years? three years? seems you've been here forever. looks personal. kier is obviously a recovery play and looks like it could surprise the market bigtime. that's why i'm here. i've done the research and happy with this position.

[wallywoo] 02/7/2022 10:31

So itsonlymoney, you think the share price will likely double on news. Lets examine the evidence to see if you are likely to be correct;


1) for the last 6 years Kier have given bullish statements but omitted any comments on cash generation. When news came they lost cash. Kier have done nothing different this year. In deed if things were different they would of sung it loudly in their capital markets day. In H1 they lost £109m in cash (2nd highest 6 month loss ever!!). Cash generation is the only thing that matters to Kier, profit is meaningless as demonstrated by Carillion (who made £50m profit 3 months before administration).


2) for the last 6 years interest rates (libor and Kier negotiated rates) have been very low. Both negotiated rate and libor rates are up substantially this year. Interest rates are at least double on Kier's debt and off balance sheet debt.

3) supply of raw materials is hitting this industry massively, so work cannot progress as quickly. So all the same fixed costs, but project delays, causing cash issues.

4) industry issues (points 1& 2 & 3) are causing many smaller construction companies to go bust. More builders are going bust than ever before and it has nearly always been high.

We of course will not know for sure until they announce it, but everything points to bad news (including the current share price). Taking your word that share price will double when you thought the same thing at 135p seems very unlikely.

[bathboy2] 02/7/2022 05:28

Zombie companies days are numbered, the years of cheap money are over. With debt restructuring due in the next few years, at much higher rates, for companies like Kier with very tight margins, and little cash generation, it is going to be tough to survive

[itisonlymoney] 01/7/2022 15:09

ramping of other shares on here!! easyjet shorts are reported as over 4%. will soon be one of the most shorted shares on the stockmarket. lets see how kier compares with easyjet from here. my money's on kier all the way now.

[itisonlymoney] 01/7/2022 15:05

reckon this could double personally. 50% from here would be nothing. just 105p andnot even near the recent high. if kier shows £40m profit for the last half-year the share price will go ballistic. only question is how much has been lost to inflation. answer could be, not very much at all.

[itisonlymoney] 01/7/2022 15:00

reckon andrew davies is probably itching to get an update out. we'll prbably see one as soon as the finance director has got all the figures in and confirmed. might be a fortnight or three weeks. wonder if the trolls will admit they've been just casting aspersions then?