Iofina Share Discussion Threads

[crosseyed] 14/11/2013 14:32

superg1,

I'm attempting to put together my own spreadsheet on IOF (which I shall be happy to share). You indicate in various posts that the operating costs for iodine produced using the IOSorb units amounts to about $15/kg. Would you kindly advise on how that figure was derived? And does it include the cost of the raw material (brine) to produce 1 kg?


Bogg1e,

You give, in post 10990, some ppm figures for the producing and shortly expected IOSorb units as follows (the suggested bpd figures have been picked up elswhere):
- IO#2 300ppm (on 30,000bpd?)
- IO#3 150ppm (on ?)
- IO#6 300ppm (co-producing with IO#2 so with perhaps 25,000bpd?)
- an average of 250ppm

Since IOF have suggested a range of 17k-40k bpd for future units, would you regard 25,000bpd at 250ppm (and 90% efficiency with 90% uptime) as being reasonable estimates (other than the immediate ones noted)?

c

[warmsun] 14/11/2013 14:22

a 'drift' (in pretty quick time!) back up towards £2 would be nice.....I don't ask for much! :)

[albany30] 14/11/2013 12:55

Seeing as we are again in RNS limbo (and that last one re IO3 potential site appears to have been another in a long line of own goals) I thought I would fill the time by pointing out that the @UK PLC ORD 1P board has been set up by our old friend N3tleyLucas, who is now - in the most jaw dropping example yet of a pot / kettle / black situation - feverishly moderating anyone who he deems to be crossing him. Remarkable.As for Iofina, given the abysmal wording of the last relevant RNS, are we due another detailed production update imminently?

[bobsworth] 14/11/2013 11:59

Blimey superg1 you could have been shot!

[superg1] 14/11/2013 11:44

Gad

'In fact lithium is not very flammable at room temperature, but burns very fiercely at elevated temperature.'

Such as, hot batteries.

So there lies the issue of the current tech.

I put a hole in a garage roof, just trying to tweak something a little more, a nice neat hole where a large bolt exited the building vertically at speed.

A large bang followed by 'oh' then a chuckle.

[gadolinium] 14/11/2013 11:12

PC/Super

We science geeks laugh in the face of danger and tweak the nose of lithium!

Many years ago I remember I needed lithium as thin sheet for enhanced surface area and chemical reactivity. I simply took lithium lumps and hammered them out into sheets on the open bench with a large hammer! It is quite malleable, but I still had to use quite a bit of force. I am still here. Although I would probably not be allowed to do it in todays safety climate.

In fact lithium is not very flammable at room temperature, but burns very fiercely at elevated temperature.

[pcjoe] 14/11/2013 00:10

Doesn`t take a scientist to understand that Electric battery development in the years to come is going to have a lot of money chucked at it for a whole host of very good reasons - Not least for EV`s & the renewable energy sector - Every reason to believe that progress may be more rapid than currently predicted - Hopefully our element of choice is going to make a big & very profitable impact on this front..

EDIT

Would you believe the CIA early movers in this Tech? -



Every chance the US military/NASA getting involved with these Iodine battery developments - That should speed things up a little - Not that we will likely hear a lot about it in the short term - I wonder if they are helping to fund the civilian Japanese research efforts? - More likely just bugging their Labs....

EDIT

I`ve probably just been clocked by a ping on GCHQ radar - Me & Merkel both

[superg1] 13/11/2013 23:05

Pc

A major problem with current Lithium batteries is contact with oxygen. I note the mention of an accident or two and punctured batteries. That is covered by an excuse that normal cars occasionally catch fire in accidents.

You puncture a lithium battery in it's current form and it's almost guaranteed.

This is a great advert to show why Lithium batteries, in their current form will disappear in the future.

[pcjoe] 13/11/2013 22:43

Interesting to hear the story behind Tesla Cars dramatic near term share price plunge on Bloomberg today after an embarrasing series of fires - Apparently its all down to these pesky Lithium Sulphate batteries they use -



The possible solution? - you guessed it - the up & coming fire resistant potentially more efficient and apparently much cheaper Lithiun iodine battery



Still a few years of commercial development required - Can`t come soon enough I say....

EDIT

More for the science geeks here - You know who you are Gad! - Especially liked the cost part ( apologies if posted before - I`ve got a feeling I`ve seen this article here before but relevant now re Tesla & other EV`s )

[writz] 13/11/2013 21:24

SG - the other phrase that leapt out at me was "emotional strength" - because a thorough understanding of fundamentals, though essential to picking the right company, isn't actually what you need to make a well timed buy or sell decision. I think that's a whole different ballgame and a whole different set of skills - hence my query to Titus and my interest in getting my head around charts. It's easy to get emotionally sucked in - yet I know that some of my best calls have been when I had least sense of attachment to the underlying stock.

[superg1] 13/11/2013 20:52

Writz

I like that line too, and it demonstrates that with careful selection and research, one can on occasions, be ahead of the market, but then comes a period of impatience, or plain failure. In both cases some early interest moves on.

I'm not one to flit around chasing various shares. I have a long list that I watch, that have potential most of which have defied the expectation of investors, and gone the wrong way. The odd one or two have had decent multipliers, but some can be hard to ignore based on research.

Having watched them for so long, and knowing their performance, if I had spread my portfolio across them (as all advice suggests), then it would have been like treading water for the last few years.

Many have been hot tips, and most of those have crashed I just watch. BUT interestingly the tips form the PIs that I know that do a lot of research, have faired very well in most cases.

A small sample of investors, but I suggest there was more than luck involved in their tips, due to solid research.

In early 2009 I made 10 picks through research for a virtual portfolio. 8 were well up and 2 down. Elmentis 25p to 250 ish now. PDX 50p to 750 to oblivion, but I would have never held onto that one, or ELM I doubt.
OCG 40p to 160p, one that I forget that got taken over, FUM at 21p rose to 107, but I got out in the 80's on the back of research, now floundering in the 50's with no real fundamental reason for that.

So on the back of experience on research, I've done probably better than average imo in relation to stock selection.

I don't regret not investing in some, as in truth, I wouldn't have held for the prices they have achieved, as such dizzy heights were/are not predictable.

I suppose we could say that about OCG now, it's far from delivery, thus keeps it's high price, as failure isn't in play yet.

[writz] 13/11/2013 18:28

I thought this was well put:

Deep value investing has been demonstrated to produce positive returns on a long-term (as in anything from three to 20-year) basis. However, because it ignores a timing component it is prone to underperformance until the wider market comes to share the investor's perception of value.

From the second sentence could be hung most of the commentary found on these bulletin boards!

[superg1] 13/11/2013 18:25

Gad

That sounds good to me and removes the head scratching re how it would work. 70% yields plus form anything 1000ppm or more, from not a lot other than letting it cool down.

The lower level the bpd the easier the cooling process becomes, especially in the winter.

[gadolinium] 13/11/2013 17:40

Super,
Thanks for the replies on trucking and high ppm hydrosorb process. Your comment on iodine rich soup and some impressions I gained from a brief conversation with George Lantz got me thinking about the solubility of free iodine in water and its relevance to these high ppm brines and its possible relevance to the Hydrosorb process

Iodides are very soluble in water, sodium iodide for example has a solubility of 1780000 ppm at 20 degrees C. On oxidation of iodides under the correct conditions free iodine is formed, but free iodine is only sparingly soluble in water 289 ppm at 20 degrees C. If we had access to brines containing say 1000 ppm of iodine (as soluble iodide) then on oxidation the concentration of free iodine would exceed its solubility in water by ca. 700 ppm and this iodine would therefore just precipitate out without any further treatment and could be simply collected by filtration. Of course recovery would not be at the 90% level seen in the Iosorb process since up to 289 ppm could still be left in solution, but this could be reduced by cooling the solution below 20 degrees (the solubility of iodine drops to 150 ppm at 0 degrees C) or by salt addition (the brine is already pretty salty anyway which would help). In any case any loss in efficiency has to be balanced against the simplicity and low cost of the iodine recovery.

Of course I may be barking completely up the wrong tree (it has been known)!

[writz] 13/11/2013 17:32

Titus, many thanks - I'll follow up.

[pcjoe] 13/11/2013 16:53

Ha Madchick - Wrong end of an oily stick - No well confirmed dry as far as I know - Just the old source of info in the area - This cryptic thing catching - All you know whos fault.......

[madchick] 13/11/2013 16:42

The Weil one, that's what I was thinking about as I thought we must be hearing soon on that!! Oh well... wrong again! :-)

[pcjoe] 13/11/2013 16:37

Cant help on the Montana Nisku front SG - The old source has gone done a zipped up duster on us re this - Plenty intriguing stuff going on though including more localish Nisku exploration/drilling going ahead shortly apparently........ Just have to wait & see what the Net throws up

EDIT

Cheers Worraps - good find that

[investmentguru] 13/11/2013 16:36

I don't believe we will see a real movement in the share price until all the expansion activity results in money landing in the IOF bank account. Happy to wait until then.

[worraps] 13/11/2013 16:31

This is from September though, so a bit old now.

[superg1] 13/11/2013 16:15

All I'll say PC is the countdown could be beaten, but I'll stick with it. I have a drum roll for any minor slips. lol

There are too many aspects of IOF in the background to try and keep track of.

I still don't know how Weil are getting on re their mysterious look at the Nisku in Roosevelt county. Why so far East form where they found the interesting level, and why at all as it's not their game, and certainly not in that area.

Why spend a few million in something out of the blue, in an area that they would likely get success in other layers.

I haven't had a look at that one for a while, but I know the Nisku stretches from Roosevelt county to Liberty county all the way under IOF. It's one of those quiet levels no-one really knows about, but a few dotted around, are drilling it in Montana ???

[pcjoe] 13/11/2013 15:50

Hmmm - The countdown mystery from SG - Not got too much of a scoob on this but will throw my hat in with an ND water application going in - Hot or Cold SG? - Hot is worth more I believe.....