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[m1k3y1] 07/10/2019 15:24

Let's hope so Monty

[montyhedge] 07/10/2019 15:19

IAG were 675p, everyone said 850p, now 465p, so when pilots do come to their senses and take the deal. Back over 600p. Calling off the 27th September strike , says to me they have bottled it. Cruz won't give in and shareholders don't want him to.
Deal soon with pilots is my view.

[m1k3y1] 07/10/2019 15:00

take_that
I tend not to listen too much with what people say regarding ACAS talks.
In my experience ( I have some) ACAS is pretty much a waste of time but a process that both sides are obliged to undertake.
Having said that, an intermediary is , sometimes beneficial.

Regarding the different groups seeking inflated pay awards using the pilots..
My understanding is that the agreed pay deal states "when discussions conclude with BALPA, if their offer is structured in a different way, the overall value of any such offer will be no greater than if this agreement was applied as specified."

So, the agreement in place with the other groups, appears to be restrictive when negotiating with BALPA. This seems fair to me , as BALPA have agreed pay deals which are more beneficial to pilots than the other groups in the past.

I understand the situation with MF and the same applies to newer pilots. In the past, BA reached agreement with the Cabin crew and Pilot unions to introduce new pay scales with lower pay and benefits. BOTH Unions agreed to this.

It was always going to lead to a race to the bottom regarding employee pay and this was one of the reasons cabin crew went on strike in 2010. The Pilots failed to support the crew and helped BA to break the strike. The result is where they are now.

I do beleive that employees should receive the same pay for the same job, however, BA have become very adept at creating new roles to justify differing pay scales.
It appears to be difficult to see how pilots and crew can now role back the clock to a time before the Unions agreed to the changes in pay and contracts.
MF did not want to agree to this latest pay deal (as I understand it ) but UNITE persuaded a small group of MF crew to vote for the deal by a show of hands at a local LGW branch meeting, apparently.

In my view, the Unions have only themselves to blame.
As for employee value.......Pilots are unable to provide BA with the same savings that the cabin crew have over the last 10 years. They are just not a large enough group.
Cabin crew have provided BA with Billions in cost savings , thanks to UNITE. As an example, their Union agreed that cabin crew could no longer achieve ANY overtime pay, regardless of how many hours they work on a flight. This not only provided BA with substantial cost savings but also placed a CAP on how much crew could earn. This was hugely beneficial to BA but very detrimental to crew.

So, I would suggest that it is the cabin crew who should receive the greater pay deal, as they have provided BA with the greatest cost savings, not the pilots.
If I were the CEO, I would be looking to reward most those employees who can provide the company with the greatest, savings and profits.

The pilots can save, or use more fuel but their scope to do this is limited and does not compare to the savings made by cabin crew over the last 10-15 years.

I would add, that I don't think you will find any World Wide crewmember ( or short haul) who would not agree that MF crews should receive higher pay.

[montyhedge] 07/10/2019 14:36

Bumper dividend in November boys.

[ariane] 07/10/2019 14:05

Resistances Resistance1: 486.50 Resistance2: 568.23

[toon1966] 07/10/2019 14:00

I'm so glad Montyhedge is NOT my broker...

[bookbroker] 07/10/2019 14:00

Hardly, only growth was in domestic, probably as a result of the demise of Flybe!

[ariane] 07/10/2019 13:59

DOUBTING THOMAS

Ariane
7 Oct '19 - 13:20 - 11329 of 11339 Edit
0 0 0
Gotta break thru strong resistence of 487p first it seems



toon1966
7 Oct '19 - 13:46 - 11334 of 11339
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Really Ariane? Prove it...

[montyhedge] 07/10/2019 13:57

To me 515p before interims easily, anyone who saw Channel 4 programme on TC collapse last night, incredible 21,000 staff on the dole, at the Job Fair, the BA stand they were very busy. Some have to go to food banks, get loans to pay their bills.
BA pilots its know wonder called off their strike, would have got slated in the press and public for greed personified. Glut of pilots. Cruz no way will give in, shareholders don't want him to. TC had to sell 3m holidays to break even incredible.

[toon1966] 07/10/2019 13:46

Really Ariane? Prove it...

[demo trader] 07/10/2019 13:41

means IAG in ISA and EZJ in S/BETTING

[montyhedge] 07/10/2019 13:27

What a great trading share and no stamp duty to the gov, brilliant.

[ariane] 07/10/2019 13:22

certainly most analysts vote it a strong BUY

[ariane] 07/10/2019 13:20

Gotta break thru strong resistence of 487p first it seems

[montyhedge] 07/10/2019 13:16

Superb figures considering strikes etc,, 515p here we come before the Interims in November, another bumper dividend boys.

[hamhamham1] 07/10/2019 13:10

I dont think Trump will want any deal to be done until the Fed has dropped their interest rate by another 0.5%. It has to come in that order, if the Fed are obliging, 2 x 0.25% drop should have filtered through by spring next year, them Trump will be happy to pump the markets, if he can!

[take_that] 07/10/2019 13:02

M1 I agree with most of what you wrote and naturally a resolution WILL be found. This will probably take concessions on both sides. What I'm hearing is though my sources, is that BA are attend the ACAS meetings but flatly refuse to negotiate. IF, that is true, then this will be hanging over the Company and therefore IAG, for a long time. That is not something we need.Regarding the different groups seeking inflated pay awards using the pilots as a precedence, how does this work with the cabin crew. I have spoken to many many crews over the years and the difference between World Wide (the older contract crews) and Mixed Fleet (the newer contracts in the last 10 years) are vast both in terms of salaries and work patterns. If you believe that staff groups should be equally awarded, then should Mixed Fleet get an increase to bring them in line with World Wide or visa-versa? BA has run these 2 groups on separate terms over the years and even when they took industrial action, very little I gather changed.To my way of thinking, each employee brings a value to the Company. A CEO who turns a Company around should be awarded a package based on the benefits and risks they have to deal with and what the going market rate is for that position. You want a good CEO you're going to have to head hunt and poach with a very enhanced package. You want a bad CEO, I'm available and would happily take just half the perks ; ) The same applies with every staff group. As far as I know, the cabin crew, engineers, ground staff etc average pay is comparable to what rivals offer. Likewise, the training time for replacements is far shorter. If it wasn't, I would expect them to fairly ask for more. Likewise, if the engineers go on strike for better terms, the pilots should not follow suit just because they can, irrespective of the beneficial financial deal they may already have. If they did, I would probably be talking about pilots like Monty does : )By the way, how does one PM on here. I'm sure you guys don't want to read the ramblings of an old fool, as I drift off thread.

[wilc42] 07/10/2019 12:38

Have these

[ariane] 07/10/2019 12:37

Ham

as usual good points


For me, the key question might be, when will the market pump up the volume

hamhamham1
7 Oct '19 - 12:27 - 11321 of 11321
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M1. And if trump sort a deal out, the markets go up amd then he would have no chance of getting interest rates fown before he can try and pupm the marlets during the november 2020 election run up

COULD BE LATE MARCH 2020

WHAT THINK YOU REGARDING TIMEFRAME

We can certainly expect the TRUMP TWEET EFFECT AS WE APPROACH P RESIDENT ELECTION DAY

[m1k3y1] 07/10/2019 12:36

ham.....Chump is desperate to agree a china deal before the elections next year.
China banking on Chump not being re-elected, or being impeached and looking to agree a more favourable deal with whoever replaces him.

[hamhamham1] 07/10/2019 12:27

M1. And if trump sort a deal out, the markets go up amd then he would have no chance of getting interest rates fown before he can try and pupm the marlets during the november 2020 election run up

[montyhedge] 07/10/2019 12:18

I thought figures were superb, considering 3 day of strikes, planes out of position either side of strike dates. Revenue per passenger Domestic includes Spain etc, up 11%, Latin America, Caribbean up 14.9%.
Much better than I thought they would be.


Looking good for another bumper dividend next month.

[m1k3y1] 07/10/2019 12:12

ham......this china situation goes up and down like a yoyo !
If there aren't people connected with this who are making substantial sums of money from the continual ups and downs I would be surprised !

I can see no reason for China to agree to anything with Chump , until the US elections have been decided.