International Consolidat... Share Discussion Threads

[waldron] 04/10/2019 12:28

MONTY THANKS FOR CLEARING THAT UP

IF YOU ACCEPT THE share price WILL FALL, WHY ON EARTH ARE BETTING AGAINST AND HOW EXACTLY.

ARE YOU BUYING TURBO CALLS

just a minor point and not important because you get your message across

example

I played golf with a ex senior pilot, he said he got paid for take off and landing the plane, very happy with his days has a pilot

WHY NOT

I played golf with a ex senior pilot, he said he got paid for take off and landing the plane, very happy with his days AS a pilot

[eleventh_earl] 04/10/2019 12:22

Ok, I suspect that is true - Some pilots surely fly to work and use discounted travel, I will give you that. I have no doubt that asking crew for a better seat is frequent - but I wouldn’t begrudge them that - the same as a used car salesman getting to use a company car - non contractual but a perk nonetheless. I can’t comment on whether people are upgraded out of on load code order - but I can’t believe BA would permit that.

I also agree, all employees deserve more. Do you know why the cabin crew and other workers agreed to the deal? BA (quite cleverly) added a clause which gave those groups the same “extra amount” should the pilots settle at a higher level. They effectively have an agreement for a better deal, without needed to fight their own fight.

Engineers apparently didn’t vote the deal through either, only 8 percent of engineers voted to accept. They were carried through as part of the unite and GMB deal. Those stats are concealed by BA though, as they are inconvenient! Speaking to a few pilots, all are clear that the engineers and cabin crew are behind them.

As for pilots currently on drawdown, how could I answer that? Of course, the pilots currently in their latter years (with investments and DB pensions) benefitted from the “golden years” with massive salaries/pensions. It’s the new boys who are paying the price - did you know almost half of BAs pilots are on a secondary pay scale (lower).

As for why pilots don’t leave, it’s because the industry is wedded to seniority. The longer you stay, the better the pay. Move airlines, you drop straight back to the bottom. Essentially, pilots join an airline and are encouraged to stay - or rewarded for experience, you decide. It all works well when companies and managers behave in a reasonable way!

[m1k3y1] 04/10/2019 12:21

monty......my understanding is that this is being led by the newer, more junior pilots. They are unhappy BUT they have the option to go work for Ezyjet, Jet2 or virgin if they believe that they will benefit from better pay and conditions.

My guess is they won't because they know when they are well off and where they have the most long term employment security.

[montyhedge] 04/10/2019 12:15

mi
I played golf with a ex senior pilot, he said he got paid for take off and landing the plane, very happy with his days has a pilot, he never had a strike, perhaps with these younger guys perhaps more militant. Can't wait for drone planes, one pilot and a computer, sack half this lot. They will be down the food bank.

Anyway back to trading, we all know T and C figures will probably disappoint Monday. Bears positioned for a shareprice fall of course, I have taken the opposite view, bear closing if half ok which could cause a nice spike up.

[montyhedge] 04/10/2019 12:03

I don't, lol. But admit for my holidays don't want a strike day. They won't vote for more strikes.
It would be like a turkey voting for Christmas, the young turks at BAAC BA arm of Balpa, might though.

[eleventh_earl] 04/10/2019 12:03

That’ll do it. Take away the travel perks from pilots who strike. That would be the same travel perks I mentioned earlier - the benefit that most pilots don’t use because the company has already made it so worthless anyway.

Oh, and from what I heard (and from the current bun article you quoted), the company is already withdrawing “staff travel” from pilots who strike - for three years. Keep up!

Anyway - I’m sure your email will do the trick. 4500 pilots couldn’t make him see sense, but your email will undoubtedly shine through.

And if trading in the short term is so profitable for you, why would you want this dispute to be resolved?? I smell something fishy!!

[montyhedge] 04/10/2019 11:50

I emailed Cruz, take away bully pilots perks. Hopefully he listens, lol.



To be fair, if not for all this turmoil thats create volatility, us traders could not trade so often. So thanks pilots.
No stamp duty best trading share up or down in the FTSE 100.

[eleventh_earl] 04/10/2019 11:10

Yet again, little knowledge of reality! I�m dressing nothing up - just presenting some facts, which you seem hell bent on ignoring.

Thomas Cook pilots: Some will consider moving to BA. But probably only the 100 or so most junior ones. TCs Captains and training pilots will not want to join BA at the bottom of the salary scales (less than half of their earnings potential). Many senior TC guys will go to the Middle East, China or take a direct entry captain job at Jet2 or similar. It won�t solve BAs shortage. Don�t forget, some of the TC pilots will have applied to BA already and been turned down. Not all pilots are made equal - experience matters and you can�t get experience overnight!

�20k payrise: Maybe, for only a very small number of trainers on the top of the salary scales. It�s propaganda and you�ve believed it. And if inflation rockets, even �20k could be a pay cut in real terms.

I don�t think the pilots are being greedy at all. Asking for a share in the good times when they�ve helped the company through the bad times - it looks like nothing more than being reasonable to me, and they are asking for the management to show some common decency and respect.

As for Cruz - of course he won�t give in - he�s working under fear for his job. The board is is a mess, poorly governed and is blindly self serving without adequate consideration to the damage it inflicts in the business. Time to smell the coffee!

[montyhedge] 04/10/2019 11:05

Whatever way you dress it up. BA pilots are the greediest pilots going.Their colleagues from TC down the food bank and 20,000 grand rise plus bonus not enough. Cruz won't give in, shareholders don't want him to.Ryanair want some of the pilots take 12 months unpaid leave.Glut of pilots. Those young militants down at BAAC, one day will realise.

[montyhedge] 04/10/2019 11:01

Bears will be right on T and C Monday, got to be down. Not rocket science. But when Everyman and his dog short. The contrarian view can be more profitable.

[eleventh_earl] 04/10/2019 10:59

Once again, there is clearly a massive naivity on here with regard to the pilots’ resolve. I understand they have been treated terribly over the last ten years, with cut after cut.

Yes, salaries are well above average for the UK, but not for the sector. An example, starting salary for a junior pilot at BA is £56k. At Virgin, you can expect £72k. Yes, allowances and flying pay add to these numbers, and bring them closer together as a total package but the “flag carrier” is not the leader by any stretch. Those obsessed with “travel perks” might like to do some more research into how great they really are! Using the same comparison, Virgin offers its pilots proper confirmed seats in Upper Class. BA....only confirmed subject to availability and always with the possibility of being offloaded on the day if customer demands become more important. As Monty says, aircraft seats are almost always full or overbooked, so finding a staff travel seat is not easy. From people I’ve spoken to, very few pilots use their travel perks for family holidays as it is just too much risk.

Add to waning salaries the loss of DB salary scheme, changes to rostering (all pilots working harder than ever) and general erosion of lifestyle, the pilots are understandably fed up. Professionals on high salaries don’t strike without massive anger, and certainly not because Mark Keane decides to be militant. Pilots are considered and objective - they have made a decision based on risk and merit. I’d put money on another strike!

As for “Share Gain” - speak to a pilot. It’s actually not even a thing, but was a phrase added in recent negotiations. Yes, pilots are eligible for a bonus, but I believe the quantum is inconsequential and the payout parameters are often outside of the pilots own control.

Oh and Monty, the BAAC you mention - I think you must mean the BACC (it stands for company council). You might like to correct your sauces on that one 😂

[hamhamham1] 04/10/2019 10:51

Your need to be seen on the right side of the trade every time is quite telling about you, and more to the point what you lack.

[hamhamham1] 04/10/2019 10:46

Monty, less than 24 hrs ago, you were "filling your boots" here!!!

[montyhedge] 04/10/2019 10:13

Monday all we know how guess is T and C must be disappointing. 3 days of strikes, then planes out of position.Bears all positioned already.Going to be interesting, next week.

[montyhedge] 04/10/2019 09:56

Traders trade every opportunity, don't get us mixed up with being investors.

[montyhedge] 04/10/2019 09:54

Applepieinthesky The keyboard warrior is back, must be strike talk, lol

[florenceorbis] 04/10/2019 09:53

Also, would have thought it better to await

october/07/2019 September 2019 Sales and Revenue Release - Traffic Statistics

before making any decision to buy,sell or hold

good chance it might fall further

moving news will then budge the sp

[montyhedge] 04/10/2019 09:37

Your point being?

[applepieinthesky] 04/10/2019 09:29

Hold on tight the next strike dates to be named soon bail out