Intercede Share Discussion Threads

[fft] 08/11/2011 10:23

Hopefully it was more than a paint job with go faster stripes, a loud exhaust, and furry dice.

[pyman] 08/11/2011 09:00

so how did PIV my phone go in washington last week?

[igoe104] 31/10/2011 16:09

Latest news.

[igoe104] 26/10/2011 15:39

Worth a read.

[igoe104] 26/10/2011 10:23

Latest product upgrade.

[aphrodites] 21/10/2011 12:20

Interesting to see that the MM's will take all your stock today but are not ready sellers!

[felix99] 19/10/2011 20:19

every audit firm will have a different way of valuing the options but they should all produce similar figures really. Essentially directors can do what they like and auditors just have ot verify they think it produces a reasonable results.

Basically its all capital asset pricing models and there are many different models and ways to value these things. GSachs etc have all sorts of models and that is often how proprietary traders make a turn and arbitraging differences in valuations of options and things.

[awilson] 19/10/2011 19:43

One trusts that Finncap and Pelham Bell Pottinger are taking note of these posts.

[wjccghcc] 19/10/2011 15:58

They'll be listed in the annual report.

[davidosh] 19/10/2011 15:53

Why would an FD claim there are a number of ways in which it can be worked out ? There must be an official HMRC and auditors approved way surely ? Why is there no official number of options that have been granted either ? Are they not listed anywhere for shareholders to know this information that Felix is requesting ?

[looby loo] 19/10/2011 14:03

Felix99, When Andrew Walker replied to Roger's question about the cost of the options, all they'd done were some preliminary estimates. He said there were a number of ways it could be worked out but mentioned just one – and that was the Binomial Theorem. So perhaps that might be what they'll use when they work it out with their auditors for the full year results.

[felix99] 19/10/2011 13:20

Roger my calculations are as an FD who has to value these things based upon the accounting standard that IGP will have to follow on share based payments - which requires that a company should make a notional charge to the PNL based which is based upon the value of the share options that have been granted. As the options I would imagine are exercisable after 3 years the total cost is circa £540k resutling in a charge per annum of circa £180k. I have taken the historic share prices of IGP and other variables that would be applicable to IGP to come up with this figure.

It is all based upon Black Scholes stuff but I would imagine IGP auditors will require similar calcs to mine to be applied in calculating the charge in the audited accounts.

THe charge will be higher though as from what I have read these options may have been given to certain employees as well who are not PDMR's - I would be interested in knowing what the grand total awarded under the scheme is.

I have based it upon the 1245k I think it was granted to PDMR so if it is more you can just scale my calcs up for the extras to get a revised figure for the notional PNL charge.

[yump] 19/10/2011 12:49

I agree they're not very demanding.

I was just surprised by the "shareholders money giving away to insiders" comment, perhaps at the back of my mind thinking that its not quite on the scale of some of the bank bonuses.

Turn of phrase sounded a bit as if your view of options isn't exactly neutral.

[roger-lawson] 19/10/2011 12:38

No I am not saying they are stealing the money. The Remuneration Committee of the board clearly approved it, and hence by implication the board of directors. And shareholders elect the board of course. So effectively shareholders representatives have chosen to remunerate certain members of staff (including some of the executive directors) with a package of options that some view as rather too generous.

Also of course, shareholders generally don't object to large option/LTIP awards so long as they are based on aggressive performance targets. That way, the insiders only benefit if the shareholders also benefit (i.e. it's a win-win situation). But in this case the performance targets that have been set are not at all challenging.

[looby loo] 19/10/2011 12:38

Pyman, Re: #2944. In my notebook that I took to the AGM, I wrote down "RP is expecting predatory offers". So yes, those were RP's words. I don't know any more than that. I suppose if the discussion after the official business had not been dominated by the LTIP, it might have been possible to speculate about possible suitors. But not on this occasion, I'm afraid.

[yump] 19/10/2011 11:30

Roger-Lawson - 19 Oct'11 - 10:49 - 2946 of 2946

"... at the current price that's £0.9m of shareholders money they are giving away to insiders"

Do you mean they're stealing our money and handing it out to anyone who fancies some within the company, or have I read your post the wrong way ?

[roger-lawson] 19/10/2011 10:49

Valuation of options is a complex subject. I did in fact ask the directors at the AGM what value they had put on the options they were granting, and they did not give an answer (didn't seem to know).

Another way to look at it is this: 1.5m options represents 3% of the existing share capital - at the current price that's £0.9m of shareholders money they are giving away to insiders.

[felix99] 19/10/2011 10:13

I am happy to take on trust for the time being the fact that IGP direcotrs will get us shareholders a good price - hopefully north of £1.25 eventually when they decide time is right to sell.

To put the share options into context - for the 1.25m or so issued to the PDMR at 1p when price was 55p there will be an annual charge in the accounts for share based payments each year for 3 years of approx £180k per annum by my calculations.

I note options will have been given to other staff as well so it could be higher when you take account of the non PDMR's.

I think all this excitement about the PDMR is one thing but I am interest to see what the total options granted have been - they could have granted more than that to rest of staff for all we know - not sure what restrictions are on total options they can issue.

[pyman] 19/10/2011 09:16

Did RP actually say he expected offers? I guess it happens all the time but predatory offers?

[yump] 19/10/2011 07:33

So we could expect an 'unexpected' burst of revenue at some point ? That's the trouble in the current climate - no news tends to be interpreted as worrying. In a bull market, nobody would worry as much.

[looby loo] 19/10/2011 01:33

Pyman. Yes it is a rather pretty chart. I think the IGP one will get a few spikes though, because RP is anticipating predatory offers along the way.

Hopefully, we'll get back up to the 80p region, once the MMs have finished filling their order. I reckon the price has been manipulated down to let an institution load up on the cheap. I'm watching the trades closely. The MMs sneaked the 3 'Y' trades (total of 115,000 shares) onto the book late:






Intercede is operating in a market that is set to grow very rapidly over the next few years. So RP knows they have to move very quickly. Very busy man on a serious mission.

On the important subject of sales; RP explained at the AGM that the reason revenues have been small so far is because their small number of customers have been taking a long time to rollout the ID cards. (I think Intercede get paid a small amount up front but don't get the balance until the rollout's complete.)

They secured the business with Lockheed Martin 5 years ago. But they've been taking forever to roll the cards out. A year ago, they'd only done 5,000. But they've done 100,000 cards since.

By contrast, Boeing have been much quicker. They didn't start their rollout until 3 months ago. But they've done 150,000 already. RP is expecting to get a lot more customers like Boeing.

[pyman] 18/10/2011 22:36

Au. chart is a pretty one indeed! I was in in 2002. Had to wait a while for the fun. had to wait longer for IGP although 2.5 in the bag so far is not so bad.

[roger-lawson] 18/10/2011 19:18

Don't see why not. LTIPs, like any other bonus scheme, can be changed at will.

[yump] 18/10/2011 17:19

Could they legally back-pedal on something like this and change the terms, so investors are a bit happier about it ?

[roger-lawson] 18/10/2011 16:54

Yes this seems to be basically a good company and certainly not in the same class as some other "problem" companies on AIM. But some activism on issues of significance (such as the LTIP and the lack of an independent non-executive chairman)should help the company rather than damage it. There are some other issues that might be worth looking at which I raised in my report on the AGM - for example does this company really have a strong focus on sales/marketing with adequate leadership in that area to achieve the rapid growth in sales (and profits)that everyone is looking for? High technology products (including software)have to be marketed and sold effectively - it's not good enough to simply have a great technical product and good partners.

And it's worth pointing out that the LTIP is not a trivial issue - it may divert substantial profits from shareholders to insiders.