Imagination Technologies Share Discussion Threads

[hammerd2] 13/9/2017 08:32

Reduced to 50k. More comfortable but keeping these now til we get a bid.

[evil_doctor_facilier] 13/9/2017 08:14

Is it not the case that if Apple had designed its own totally independent GPU they wouldn't have found it necessary to desperately poached IMG GPU related staff!!

[evil_doctor_facilier] 13/9/2017 08:07

Apple,Show us the custom GPU that does impinge on Imagination's patents.
I think world will have a long wait for that!!!

[sweenoid] 13/9/2017 07:55

Put a dead rat in a bin and leave it there and the stink gets worse.!

I am only back here for a punt, HY ended my love affair years ago, however Hammerd has made some valid points as have others, the references to TBDR , the timeliness of this so-called fully designed GPU which must be at least 12 months old , makes it inconceivable in my mind that patents have not been infringed right left AND centre. Just for 'fairness' sake...this issue has git to run. What went on between Apple and IMG that made this happen?, I guess we will never know.

My punt was purely 'takeover' related at a price I thought good, last night didn't change a thing in my books
S

[hammerd2] 13/9/2017 07:06

Beat me to it Ian -

Cat dropped directly into the pigeon filled square - they describe their own designed GPU exactly as IMG do. Admitting that it is TBDR they add 'The Apple-designed GPU in the A11 delivers several features that significantly enhance TBDR. These features are provided via additional Metal 2 APIs and allow your apps and games to realize new levels of performance and capability.´.

Ian, perpetual license would imply perpetual royalties too right ? Unless it was a one off payment (ie really stupid).

Sounds a lot like they've enhanced what they already licensed rather than designed a new architecture from scratch, but what do I know ?

I really hope a litigious deep pocketed outfit buy IMG. If this really is all Apple's own orig Mal work they have done a hell of a job and also didn't need all recent those IMG hires as the design for this must have been completed before most of them would have been headhunted.

[twatcher] 13/9/2017 02:34

Interesting that the new Apple GPU docs define their GPU as a TBDR, with enhancements to it.

"The Apple-designed GPU in the A11 delivers several features that significantly enhance TBDR. These features are provided via additional Metal 2 APIs and allow your apps and games to realize new levels of performance and capability."

Also the new GPU is powervr texture compression compatible. Either the patent has expired for this, or IMG gave Apple a perpetual license to use this.

[borromini1] 13/9/2017 00:27

Today's closing share price 1.44 GBP, Market Cap £412M, reduce by £60m, gives share price 1.24 GBP. Choose your level of detrimental effect. Makes a certain sense for potential bidders to wait for iPhone release clarity before making a move. Hard to believe IMG are not aware of what royalties Apple are/are not intending to pay on these new iPhones. An RNS seems in order.

[twatcher] 12/9/2017 23:03

Whatever the actuality of the issue, apples new claim, and it is for the first time explicitedly claimed, is that this is their GPU, and is consistent with their statement of moving away. It may have gone under the radar, but they were also at pains to point out that the video encoder is their own design too. Img supplied video encode/decode to Apple.

[borromini1] 12/9/2017 22:47

Ah Sheep Herder, tim bob seems to have left out another new item in the A11 Bionic SOC, providing the neural engine for machine learning algorithms via a two core design capable of six billion operations per second and real time processing. Apple didn't explicitly say Apple designed but what do you think Apple or IMG or ARM?

[sheep_herder] 12/9/2017 21:02

sweenoid, I think you've been out of touch on IMG for too long. :-)

This is the right ballpark timeframe for them to switch their high end GPU away from IMG. If they claimed that they'd stop using all IMG IP in that timeframe then they would likely start with the high end and phase out the rest as the tech trickles down.

If you look at the work going into neural network processors, you can see why the GPU is less of a concern now and they're trying to spend more silicon area on what is important. HiSilicon have done the same.

People here are still talking about it as if it's the conspiracy of the decade while it is purely technical reasons that they're moving away. All the talk of patent litigation is fanciful at best. At least this thread keeps on giving in the entertainment stakes.

[timbob2000] 12/9/2017 20:59

Just to confirm for the A11 SoC Apple are saying "Apple-Designed" for the following parts: CPU Performance Controller, Camera ISP, Video Encoder core and the GPU. Now concerning the GPU, it was mentioned on the Anandtech website blog that the new GPU is a 3-core design, which if correct would indicate the same design as A9 and A10 GPUs. Each core has 2 clusters each (called a core pair), 2 x 3 = 6 cluster design with all 3 core pairs sharing the same GPU logic... Just going on this small bit of detail it appears the basic design of the GPU hasn't altered that much but until more detail is released we cannot know for sure.

[someuwin] 12/9/2017 20:49

Interesting tweet from IMG just two hours ago...

Imagination Tech‏ @ImaginationTech · 2 hours ago

Face detection and identification using #OpenCL on #PowerVR #GPU hardware #computervision #neuralnetwork

[someuwin] 12/9/2017 20:41

"Ah well, you win some you lose some."

Very true.

[primitive] 12/9/2017 20:39

The slide also states 'Apple-designed video encoder'Think I'm right in saying that part was also PowerVR in all previous Ax chips.Apple seem to be spelling it out quite clearly imo. iPhone 6s iPhone 7 will continue for now, so still get some royalties.

[hammerd2] 12/9/2017 20:31

Not at all D but Apple alleged 18-24 months before no royalties would be due. IF this real then sales of older kit (7 and before) will have all but stopped in that timeframe.

My main point is that when traders READ that Apple now have their own GPU they may just ignore the fact they already knew it was coming and heavily mark down the share price on opening.

It won't mess with my trades too much as I've paid for them anyway and I'll let them run til a bid comes in. Unfortunately I opened a £200 a point spread bet yesterday so it could be a painful wake up call 😭😱😭😱

Ah well, you win some you lose some.

COYI ⚒⚒

[sweenoid] 12/9/2017 20:17

Rob and Ken

Apple will USE the words to suit their argument, do you really believe that they could get this far without IMG IP?

They are determined, for whatever reasons to consign IMG to the dust- bin and what better an opportunity

I believe everything Apple says .....do you ?! Well you obviously do???
S

[hammerd2] 12/9/2017 20:15

But the markets are closed til 8am so let's just wait and see.

[hammerd2] 12/9/2017 20:13

Exactly. They have claimed first ever Apple designed GPU. For buyout purposes I hope there's still IMG IP involved but this really does not odd well, despite the real cost to prospective buyers only being £60m or so.

[rob_evans] 12/9/2017 20:08

"The iPhone 8 and iPhone 8 Plus have the FIRST EVER Apple-designed GPU"

Bye bye royalties.

[fsawatcher] 12/9/2017 20:00

apple been designing all the chips for years

nuffin new ere mate

[bluehorseshoe74] 12/9/2017 19:45

For the stock market the lost of Apple Business for IMG is induced since begin of April. But Poison for the share price is the missing story, means missing bids...

[pottsey] 12/9/2017 19:39

Apple have been calling it an Apple designed GPU for years now. I think it started with the A9? At least the past two generations have been listed as an Apple GPU.

[life of crime] 12/9/2017 19:39

If IMG are aware that their IP is being used, despite Apple's "designed" remark, then they need to issue an RNS before trading tomorrow, or the market will assume the worst and it will be £1 here we come.

If it is a worse case scenario, and their IP has already been removed from the GPU, then at least they will know 12 months early whether there has been an infringement. If so, any buyer will factor a potential court payout into their bid.

[hammerd2] 12/9/2017 19:21

I agree about the IP but I fear the market will have seen and heard the words.