Icg Enterprise Share Discussion Threads

[1968jon] 23/7/2024 12:03

SP certainly doing OK and frequently in the last couple of weeks trading the high of the day in the closing auction. Who knows what is going on. I'd be surprised if it were on the back of an anticipation of any news. It's still on a 31% discount, which to me is nonsense. I know that much of the PE world is still a bit bunged up. Maybe, the UK press talking up the UK market - particularly below the FTSE 100 - is helping at the margins.
My view is that the most likely outcome is that I will make great money out of this one in the next 5-10 years.

[pyglet] 22/7/2024 14:14

Going gang busters lately

[novision] 11/7/2024 12:32

Q1 update to 30/4/24

[1968jon] 29/5/2024 10:08

Maybe, and I've observed a few algos and a few buybacks in my time, but I'd question the parameters on this one. At 9.42 this morning 9,855 shares had traded. Of that number 7 trades totalling 3,066 shares had traded on the RSP and 25 trades had been an automatic trade lifting the offer, (including when the spread was 22p wide!!!) for a total of 6,789 shares. A buyback instruction with seemingly no price limit and 69% participation would be unusual. They are only small volumes, so not really moving the price, but interesting to a screen nerd like me.

[elbrus55] 29/5/2024 09:30

Possibly the buy back algo? Looks like they are trying to get 10,000 shares a day via normal trading.

[1968jon] 28/5/2024 11:56

It seems as though someone has left an algo on since Friday. Lifts the offer repeatedly in small size every few minutes. I would post time and sales if I could screenshot it.

[1968jon] 10/5/2024 15:18

I understand the distinction Riverman. My point is more to a wider audience who distrust the valuations of private markets and might say "ah! you sell the good stuff at 29% premium but what of all the unsold stuff". Well it seems to me that the rump stuff should have a floor at -15% not -38%.

Don't get me wrong, I am confident in ICGT and eventually the backup in PE deals will clear and we can get back back to a high teens discount and it will hopefully compound for me at 10+% for the next ten years.

[riverman77] 10/5/2024 14:15

ICGT is realising assets at an average 29% premium. The 15% discount you mention relates to a secondary sale of some assets where they saw less upside - hopefully a one-off clear out and the majority of the portfolio can be sold at a premium. PE funds are generally quite conservative on valuations since they are not typically incentivised to mark up asset values before they are sold.

Unlike PIN and some of the others, there has been no press coverage at all of ICGT's plans - feel they need to up their game on the PR front.

[skyship] 10/5/2024 13:40

1968 - PIN finally did the right thing - though done with buybacks rather than dividends. I cursed them for not rewarding shareholders - finally they have done so.

ICGT & HVPE still less so...

[skyship] 08/5/2024 13:24

Actually, better still they should take a leaf from APAX and pay out a %age of NAV annually. 3% would deliver 57.3p for a yield of 4.8%.

Compare that mere 3% with the long term growth rate of 12%+ pa

Is management just protecting their fees, in the same way as HVPE?

[cousinit] 08/5/2024 12:08

They obviously know there is an overhang so it seems like an invitation to motivated sellers to pick up the phone.

I suspect the dividend would be nudged up if the discount closes.

[skyship] 08/5/2024 12:03

Personally feel they should raise the dividend rather than making more buybacks. The 2.7% yield too low.

[riverman77] 08/5/2024 10:17

New 'opportunistic' buyback announced alongside the existing long term buyback and dividends. Detail is somewhat buried in the report - you'd think they'd want to publicise this a bit more. New buyback is up to £25m, which appears to be in addition to the existing buyback (last year £13m) and the 33p dividend. If you add all this up it could equate to a 7.5% shareholder return at current share price.

Nav returns slightly soft over last year but seems to be a combination of fx, 50% fall in Chewy share price (now only 1.4% of portfolio) and the sale of some older underperforming assets at 15% discount. Underlying portfolio seems to be performing well with 14% EBITDA growth.

Overall think looks pretty good value on a 38% discount, having lagged some its peers recently. They're realising assets at a 29% premium to book value, so on that basis looks very cheap.

[spangle93] 08/5/2024 08:05

Results RNS - unusual formatting


Link to Results page of ICG website, for presentation slide or webcast at 10am

[its the oxman] 03/5/2024 00:05

Anyone know the results date?

[acol] 11/4/2024 14:55

A fairly hefty trade of 65K of shares just went through at exactly mid price and price remains static. Times like this I wish I had the advantage of level 2! Presumably the results are due out 2nd week of May.

[skyship] 20/3/2024 15:15

Back in at 1204 with a CFD - saves on that pesky SD!

[acol] 15/3/2024 18:22

Interesting indeed! Several other trades at a similar price including a buy of over 8K shares. Difficult to call this share at times but still very good value at these levels, imo.

[rimau1] 05/3/2024 16:46

I will correct you on Starling. It would have a fintech multiple because although it is a digital bank the high growth opportunity is licensing its platform and tech IP to other banks that want to start a digital footprint. So it has recently signed agreements in Australia, Poland and Austria.You can't price Starling with a bank peer group. On Klarna a $20bn valuation adds about 13p to NAV however the rerating is triggered by the fact that Chry will return all funds to shareholders rsther than reinvest so this will close the 40% discount to NAV

[donald pond] 04/3/2024 09:27

There's a useful Quoted Data puff piece on CHRY worth starting at. I find ICGT and HVPE a little frustrating (HVPE in particular) as they are so diversified that there's little point digging into the underlying assets. Which makes the discounts even more baffling when most markets are not only as all time highs but breaking out. I suppose PE valuations didn't go stratospheric in 21 (most HVPE realisations were at a 100% premium to carry value) or crash in 22, but surely they should be recovering sharply now

[apple53] 03/3/2024 17:50

Thanks Donald. Very interesting. It's had a nice double move, pre and post its last quarterly results/nav. I haven't tracked if starling newsflow was key to this. Klarna (of which I think it owns about 1%) had massively improved profitability recently, but even if it IPOs at its target (rather than the Softbank investment level), it will only add a few percent to NAV. Starling is interesting when you look at valuations of UK banks. Last results were 195m pre-tax. A peer valuation (it was year to March 23 so essentially 2022 normalised earnings multiples for peers) would only give them maybe £1.2bn valuation, vs £2.5bn at the last funding round. I think CHRY may have a valuation of £1.7bn (assuming a c. 10% stake), which may have been dragged down (ironically) by the Jupiter sale? Do correct me if I'm wrong. However, its growth to 2022 was immense, with revenue doubling and profit up 6-fold. Like its generation of neobanks, it grew deposits first but needed to lend to turn a proper profit. It's now doing that, but rapid lending growth carries risks (and I need to look at ex-ante provisioning for all the new loans, which should be a drag on profits in the year the loan starts).

I will try to look at the Starling P&L to see what the potential is for 2024 earnings and beyond. I should then try to post on CHRY chat rather than clogging up here.

Any IPO of Starling will be fascinating, given the historically low multiple of bank PEs. Maybe it will be priced as a 'tech-bank', but then help to drag up its peers when people start to see the light.

Re. CHRY clearly a 37% discount is sizeable, though I know nothing about other holdings.

[donald pond] 02/3/2024 21:20

Btw apple I think it is well worth looking at CHRY. It is to all intents and purposes PE fund and the concentrated PF means the valuation is clear. There are several routes to very sizeable uplifts: a quoted data report last month said an iPo of Starling could add 45p to the NAV. When the share price is 90 and they are committed to big buybacks when something sells it looks great value