Icg Enterprise Share Discussion Threads

[apple53] 02/3/2024 20:56

Sky- you are even worse than me. I WOULD take 3% on HVPE (and have taken less when I needed the cash), but on ICGT with STAMP!
I also sold APEO early, average 513p. Most of it went into OCI at 443 average, and a bit into CORD (along with some PIN proceeds) which I flipped already to buy (more) ONT at 135. I am sure I will regret the latter. PEIT can be volatile but ultimately you feel so much surer of medium term value than in 'growth' stocks like ONT.

Thanks for the buyback discussion Acol and Cousin. I take the points - ie 1) they did as much volume in one day as in the 27 transactions mentioned in the Q3 report for end October; and 2) yes they took the 22p hit to NAV to raise valuable cash upfront, and 3) given price performance since, they may indeed have cleared the overhang. The sacrificial sale ultimately meant that in local currency, they were down more than 1% in Q3 restated, saved by 3% currency benefit from a 5.5% fall in cable. It did mean we have an example of a PE firm selling BELOW carrying value. Hmmm.

July to October saw a 10% fall in world MSCI, so serious headwinds, even for conservative accountants. My real time estimate of ICGT's NAV is 2075, with the biggest factor being 45% of world MSCI's increase, partially offset by sterling strength. End Jan MSCI was almost 5% lower than now (though up 16% since October), so I guess I'm thinking around 2020 for end Jan. On the one hand I hate to think how much of World MSCI is driven by META and NVDA, and therefore that accountants will be cautious marking up PE portfolios. On the other hand I'm not building in much for real organic growth, which they normally achieve in spades. I own some ICGT but not enough. If HVPE went up £2 I would switch some. If it's still languishing round here, it has to be worth owning it for Q4 results.

If anyone has done any work on their actual holdings and their likely correlation (or lack thereof) with S&P, NASDAQ etc........

[skyship] 29/2/2024 13:11

ali - if you read both 339 & 340 you will understand the parlance of "a quick turn".

[ali47fish] 28/2/2024 21:58

what is a quick turn - dou you mean you bought

[skyship] 28/2/2024 16:11

Took a quick turn at 1227 - couldn't resist it with everything else going in the opposite direction!

[skyship] 23/2/2024 13:55

Sold my APEO too early on into the recent rise; but a good turn nevertheless as it hit target pretty rapidly.

Want to be back into another PE trust. Looked at HVPE due to the large discount; but hate management as they won't pay a dividend in a poorly disguised desire not to reduce their fees.

So, back into ICGT at 1190 versus the Oct'23 NAV of 1959. Discount at c39%; but likely higher as the Jan'24 NAV should be North of 2000p. Hate paying the 0.5% SD! I feel it shouldn't apply in a tax-free SIPP.


free stock charts from uk.advfn.com

[thinking] 20/2/2024 07:18

Good spot but no purchase since which is interesting as often there were daily repurchases announced.

[cousinit] 14/2/2024 15:15

Good spot Acol.

This is probably to demonstrate that selling some assets (which they say may lag the portfolio going forward) at a 15% discount to NAV is a good deal when you can use the cash to retire shares at a 40% discount.

With the other large trades a week or so ago, is there a chance that some of the overhang is being shaken out?

The buy back so far has been more nibbling at the edges. If it can now progress towards decent sized bites that might give the shares a boost similar to APEO.

[acol] 14/2/2024 15:04

This morning's notification of Companies share transaction must surely have a typo on the date which is shown as 13 January! It must relate to last night's purchase of 340,000 shares? A sizeable value purchase by any standard!
ICGT has been struggling to maintain its recent rise to around £12.50 a share. However, rightly or wrongly I remain optimistic that it will soon reflect a more realistic value.

[riverman77] 09/2/2024 09:53

Surely these PE 40% discounts are no longer sustainable given global markets have been strong over last year. I can see an argument for why NAVs were too high when markets fell heavily in 2022 and NAV may have to cut back, but equity markets now recovered all those losses. Also, ICGT still realising assets at average 30% uplift.

[1968jon] 08/2/2024 13:13

9.22 the time (this morning)
Five trades printed at a price of £12.
Clips of 45,893, 179,353, 174,754, 356,946 and 356,605 shares. Admittedly the two 170k prints and the two 356k prints might be two sides of the same trade.
Probably means nothing and clearly hasn't positively impacted the share price yet.

[ali47fish] 08/2/2024 12:55

1968 what chunky blocs and whr is 9..22 for please

[1968jon] 08/2/2024 09:44

Some chunky blocks printed at 9.22. Would be nice if it presaged a move up....

[thinking] 25/1/2024 20:30

I think the discounts are well overdone especially in this fund, I am not sure what it is going to take to substantially narrow it?

[1968jon] 25/1/2024 10:15

One explanation given for the blowout in discounts for many PE trusts from high-teens/early twenties to high thirties/forties was a concern about the reliability of the valuations and the lack of any downward revisions as interest rates rose. Certainly if a fund had gone windmilling in to tech at the back of '22 in the final post-covid frothy blow off, they will have paid very fully. Like another trust I own, ICGs 4% NAV mark over 12 months seems steady as she goes. Absent (geo)political horrors, hopefully over the next year some of that market concern unwinds.

[18bt] 25/1/2024 09:58

Still looks good value on discount of 37% IMHO. Well diversified and uplift data suggest conservatively valued

[ali47fish] 14/12/2023 16:27

spangle i dont trade i invest- which one did you mean

[spangle93] 14/12/2023 15:59

Technical analysis alone would suggest that on recent cycles with improving baseline, now would be a good time for anyone trading the stock to buy in

[ali47fish] 14/12/2023 13:19

oxman what triggered this then please

[its the oxman] 14/12/2023 11:48

Added 1160p

[ali47fish] 17/11/2023 18:37

Thanks manc- the reason i asked is because i have been reading kepler's ans hardmans' notes and both are positive - but as analysts they are not independent so i am cautious

[mancman1] 17/11/2023 18:18

all47fish

I keep a record of my investments, a kind of diary which is not as thorough as I would wish. Anyway I find that I first made a modest investment on ICGT on 24th September 2021 and later added more. It is still less than 2% of my portfolio.I didn't record the price, but recorded that its yield was around 2%, and its discount 14%. That was quite a high discount then. Now I believe the average is around 16%, and ICGT is around 35% discount. I remember being first alerted to ICGT by watching a presentation about some under-valued Investment Trusts - I think BERI was another.

I seem to remember being impressed by the management's track record, its relatively low risk investment in the secondary private equity market, and its diverse portfolio. I don't think any of those things have changed.

For longer term investors it still looks good value.

[ali47fish] 17/11/2023 09:04

manc why did you invest please

[mancman1] 17/11/2023 08:37

I have just been reading this article by Kepler that was published in October.
It reminds me why I first invested in ICGT.

hxxps://www.trustintelligence.co.uk/investor/articles/fund-research-investor-icg-enterprise-retail-oct-2023

[deadly] 15/11/2023 17:16

Perhaps because it is ridiculously undervalued at 39% discount and considering its historic performance, and any sign of an upturn brings out the buyers.

[thinking] 14/11/2023 22:17

Can anyone explain why this fund behaves the way it does the swings are quite remarkable?