Harland & Wolff Share Discussion Threads

[loglorry1] 06/3/2024 10:52

Talk of an NI cut in the budget will have an indirect small positive for HARL in the sense their employees will be better off so they might get away with paying them less.

Nothing material compared to the huge debt burden and lack of anyway to pay it back and continue to fund losses.

[ozzywalker] 06/3/2024 09:41

I'm out good luck all

[jaknife] 06/3/2024 09:26

linesal,

"all we need today to make this better is a tax cut for small businesses,I personally think the finance deal will be signed shortly."

FWIW a tax cut wouldn't help HARL.

HARL don't pay any tax because they make losses so it's not going to help them their. Note 11 to the last accounts says:

=========================================
Factors that may affect the future tax charge

The Group has trading losses of £62,732,366 (2021: £28,145,431) which may reduce future tax charges. Future tax charges may also be reduced by capital allowances on cumulative capital expenditure.

No deferred tax asset has been recognised due to uncertainty as to when profits will be generated against which to realise said asset.
=========================================

The flipside is that they have significant accumulated tax losses but these aren't shown on the balance sheet as HARL don't know when they will make a profit to utilise these losses.

JakNife

[loglorry1] 06/3/2024 08:46

Feels like they are ramping the equity for a keep the lights on raise to private investors who are daft enough to give them any cash. Why not milk them for a few pounds? I'm sure Riverstone would be keen for any sort of equity raise at this point.

[owenski] 06/3/2024 08:42

Peanuts contract for a loss making business, effectively, £1m per six months, wage bills at the yard are higher.

Finance still not sorted, nothing has changed.

[loglorry1] 06/3/2024 08:24

Its a tiny contract. Not worth the RNS. The gross profit on it will cover a couple of weeks interest on their loan. I guess it just shows how desparate they are to try to support the share price.

[wiltowin] 06/3/2024 07:35

You wait ages for a bus and suddenly two come along..

[linesal2] 06/3/2024 07:12

all we need today to make this better is a tax cut for small businesses,I personally think the finance deal will be signed shortly.

[skinny] 06/3/2024 07:06

Harland & Wolff Group Holdings plc (AIM: HARL), the UK quoted company focused on strategic infrastructure projects and physical asset lifecycle management, is pleased to announce that it has signed a five-year Master Services Agreement for the fabrication of large structures with a global oil services company supplying subsea infrastructure across the major hydrocarbon basins around the globe.

The Company has now received its first purchase order under that agreement to fabricate six subsea structures with a contract value of approximately £3 million. These highly specialised structures are used in oil and gas platforms and the surrounding infrastructure, capable of withstanding pressures of 430 bar (6,235 psi) and as such are mission critical parts.

These structures will be built over the next 18 months at the Company's Arnish site in a staged delivery programme with an expected completion date in H1 2025.

John Wood, CEO of Harland & Wolff Group Holdings commented:

"I am delighted that Arnish is recognised as a centre of excellence to deliver critical subsea infrastructure. This contract marks a significant step for the Company and builds on the highly technical work the yard has already undertaken on suction anchors, piles and the work it is currently performing for the Sea Rose FPSO Contract. These specialised subsea structures are a new product area for Harland & Wolff and we expect that successful delivery of this contract will open up significant opportunities for additional contracts in subsea infrastructure going forward."

[xenor] 06/3/2024 00:08

Lots of nonsense posted in this cesspit today. For the record, HARL have been awarded preferred bidder status on a 100-120m contract."PREFERRED BIDDER is the bidder who is selected by the vendor, usually to some predetermined criteria, as being the party to whom it intends to sell the business, or award a contract, subject to the completion of negotiations and legal arrangements"Based on previous large contract awards I would expect this confirmed in 2-3 months time.HARL is now at the stage of its growth where it should be winning a couple of contracts like this one and Sea Rose annually. Expecting 2025 revenue targets to exceed 300m when announced. 200m to break even so next year will be profitable and the upcoming finance will see us through to that point.Hold on to your shares and don't let the noise spook you out of them.In the meantime I am buying some popcorn ready for reading this cesspit of a forum after the finance deal is confirmed.

[seagreen] 06/3/2024 00:08

This stock is a buy and at least a 10 to 20:% bounce if people look at the logic.

[seagreen] 06/3/2024 00:06

AKA I spit on you from a great height you deceitful cad 8:)

[linesal2] 05/3/2024 16:32

Well, that was a good day!

[jaknife] 05/3/2024 14:38

seagreen,

"you can have 1-0 for now"

Thank you.

In time, when BEN goes bust, you might also remember that you have a few slurs to withdraw:




"HARL one simple question whay are they winning contracts or as I say being awarded preferred bidder status I note owenski admitted the preferred word?"

I don't know. Perhaps they are lowballing their bids? After all they're not making an overall profit!



"PFC as you fully know they are fighting to reduce guarantees and recovering guarantees as its stressing their cash flow...will be interesting but the institutional shorts are reducing and leaving the retail shorters to be washed away with the bath water I expect."

I am intimately familiar with Petrofac, it is my number one conviction play.

Would you please provide the confirmation requested in this post?



JakNife

[ali47fish] 05/3/2024 14:37

i'll wait for the update to get to the truth here as usual too many trolls

[seagreen] 05/3/2024 14:08

JK
BEN was my biggest winner for some time I was then playing what I do not comprehend was the train issue I still do not so I am not playing. you can have 1-0 for now, but I took the money
HZM Not a lot I can do if they suddenly admitt they materially understated cost to mining so will watch its a good asset but eyewatering to bring it into production

HARL one simple question whay are they winning contracts or as I say being awarded preferred bidder status I note owenski admitted the preferred word?

PFC as you fully know they are fighting to reduce guarantees and recovering guarantees as its stressing their cash flow...will be interesting but the institutional shorts are reducing and leaving the retail shorters to be washed away with the bath water I expect.

In both cases the upside of shorting is becoming very small and a high risk strategy that is why the institutions are reducing on PFC and I do not see a bg institution short here it is your gang of retailers I think th epenny is dropping as buyers return to HARL

Time will tell I hate to say HARL is too strategical to fall for political reasons as there is no such thing but I feel the government will bring as much subtele pressure to bear to keep it recovering.

Owenski Of course they are using their spare capacity what a stupid thing to say there is also an opportunity cost/saving of using the employees who are being paid.

Time will tell

[owenski] 05/3/2024 13:56

Vox Markets, headlines with - HARL wins contract - which is absolutely not the case, it has been 'awarded a bidding status' and not the contract, there are likely to be other bidders in the frame too.

Balance sheet insolvency problems remain the same here. They've already stated they will need to spread the work around their under utilised cash burning yards.

Shares marked up at the open to lure the numpties in.

[jaknife] 05/3/2024 12:08

seagreen,


"BEN did me proud then the price of coal colapsed no position"

And yet you defended BEN and attacked me here:



When the BEN share price was a mere 15p.

Are you now saying that our BEN debate has finished? That you've changed your mind from what you (rudely) wrote on 1 October?



"HZM I had £100 worth and bailed after the last RNS"

Let us remove HZM from the scoreboard, I don't like even numbers, this leaves just the three.



"The other two are similar in that they have excellent order books and it should not be beyond the bankers to come up with a solution to provide liquidity they are fundamentally good businesses that need tight cost control.

In return in all seriousness why are they both winning mega contracts of size if there was a real posibility of them struggling to make ends meet ...just does not make sense to me.

I would have thought the risk reward lies with the patient small long position where as if either provides they have liquidity solutions you could lose a packet

You seem to be basing a lot of your judgement that the CEO's are not honest and/or the clients are stupid and have not done their DD."


Petrofac
What is it about Petrofac's $1bn of losses accumulated over the last nine years and the losses that are forecast for 2024 that makes you think that its order book is "excellent"?

What is it about the negative tangible book value, looming April bank debt repayment and the company's admission (this am) that it is in negotiations with its banks and bondholders that makes you think that their balance sheet is anything other than a disaster zone?

HARL
What is it about HARL's track record of losses every year that it's been listed AND the expected losses for 2023 AND the forecast losses for 2024 that makes you think that its order book is "excellent"?

What is it about the huge gaping blackhole in HARL's balance sheet, and the fact that it has been in discussions with various banks since November 2022 about refinancing its debt and still hasn't been able to achieve that, which makes you think that HARL's balance sheet is anything other than a nuclear disaster area?


I sometimes find it quite incredible that shareholders can't see what is plainly right in front of their eyes!

For the moment I will accept that you have conceded defeat on BEN and mark the scorecard at 1-0 with the Petrofac and HARL games yet to finish.

JakNife

[seagreen] 05/3/2024 11:28

ROLMAO Morning

BEN did me proud then the price of coal colapsed no position
HZM I had £100 worth and bailed after the last RNS

The other two are similar in that they have excellent order books and it should not be beyond the bankers to come up with a solution to provide liquidity they are fundamentally good businesses that need tight cost control.

In return in all seriousness why are they both winning mega contracts of size if there was a real posibility of them struggling to make ends meet ...just does not make sense to me.

I would have thought the risk reward lies with the patient small long position where as if either provides they have liquidity solutions you could lose a packet

You seem to be basing a lot of your judgement that the CEO's are not honest and/or the clients are stupid and have not done their DD.

I will park it there (clearly BEN have run into delivery/train issues and HZM are not in production diferent issues imho)

[seagreen] 05/3/2024 09:08

No surprise if one or two Private equity firms start getting their slide rules out with such an order book and such a small market cap of a smidge under £20M...shame Melrose do not have some band width left...

[wiltowin] 05/3/2024 08:45

Took your advice Oakville and bought 200,000