Flowgroup Plc Share Discussion Threads

[greenday] 23/2/2015 10:12

Cyberhub

Agree there is plenty of huge upside ahead, however in the short term fLOW needs deals,

getting people to sign an agreement that based upon the writing of upfront capital that is likely to be 80% more expensive than next years deals could be a challenge.

The future deals potentially will look so much more attractive in respect to paybacks and VFM.

[cyberbub] 23/2/2015 09:47

Geeenday yes I noticed that quote too... in reality the boiler price makes no difference for people on the Flow Finance option because Flow will pay for the boiler no matter what the price!... and of course they need to appeal to the outright purchase market too, for whom a lower purchase price is obviously much more important...But it is a poor turn of phrase I would agree...I think we just need to trust management on the way ahead... they are top notch and I believe that they know what they're doing...On the more positive side, trials with "the biggest energy company in Europe if not the world" sounds great, and should help us to identify them... is it EON?

[dmashiter00] 23/2/2015 09:28

I'm going to buy back in later his this week, my target of 24p looks very achievable

[1fox1] 23/2/2015 09:21

Well summat's not right since the launch. We've been on a one way trip south since.

[greenday] 23/2/2015 09:14

My main concern is the widely known statement, we hope to reduce the cost of the boiler from £3,675 to just over £2000 during the year?

What is the incentive to purchase now, you may as well hold on until they come down to £2000, it's the argument that's going around about why deflation is bad.

People are reluctant to buy because they know if they wait they can get it cheaper, in many cases people patch up or repair old boilers until they are ready to buy.

[crbema] 23/2/2015 08:53

Fox You profile created 14th the February 2015.

[smelleroo] 23/2/2015 08:06

Flow Energy: We can be the Google of the energy industry
Company says new boiler that also generates electricity will cut household emissions and save customers £80 a month

Flow Energy, the UK company behind a new boiler that generates electricity as well as heat, is not short of ambition.
"This application could be a game-changer," says Tony Stiff, chief executive of the AIM-listed company. "There are 220 million boilers in the UK, Europe, and the US - it's a huge market. We think that we have an opportunity to become the de facto heating system of choice... a chance of becoming the Google of the energy industry."

It's a big claim, but Stiff insists Flow has the technology to back it up. Having launched as a utility company in April 2013, racking up 66,000 customers, Flow last month started taking orders for its boiler technology. It hopes to install 15,000 this year, primarily as replacements for old, inefficient models. Around 1.7 million boilers are replaced in the UK each year, Stiff says, of which some 500,000 are suitable for Flow's technology.
The micro-combined heat and power (CHP) system effectively works like a refrigerator in reverse. It uses gas to heat a high-pressure liquid coolant sealed inside the system, with the vapour created as a result moving through a dynamo known as a 'scroll'. The component, which is commonly used in hybrid cars, spins to generate electricity, harnessing energy that would otherwise be lost. The vapour then moves through a heat exchanger to heat water for the home before returning to the boiler as the water is pumped around.

Stiff says the system uses gas so efficiently that despite using more fuel than a traditional boiler it can reduce a home's emissions by 20 per cent compared to grid electricity. "The product is low carbon - it's not green, because it's not a renewable technology, but what it does is use gas more efficiently," he says. "We see this as a transition technology. We all want to move towards a renewable world, but in reality it's not there yet. So we've got gas, let's use it more efficiently.
Homeowners fitting the Band A boiler are promised savings of up to £80 a month on energy bills, with the technology also attracting feed-in tariff payments for power generation used in their houses and the roughly 10 per cent of electricity exported to the grid. "If you put out a million units that would be a sizeable, dirty power station that you would not need on the grid," Stiff adds.

Of course, the boiler only generates electricity when the heating is on and has no ability to store electricity. But Stiff says households use most power when the heating is on, primarily in the evenings when dinner is in the oven, clothes are being washed, and the TV is on.
The current model is suitable for three to five bedroom homes, but Stiff is aiming to expand the company's offering to the small business market, both by putting a number of boilers together and bringing a large boiler to market in 2016.

"The next stage for us is we will have to ability to put boilers in a cascade [and] we'll put in larger boilers as well for small SMEs," Stiff says. "If you look at high street shops, hairdressers, small offices - that would be our target market. Everyone's looking at reducing their energy bills."
The US, where average home energy use is almost double that of the UK, is an additional key future market and Flow has a partnership with utility giant NRG Energy to trial the boilers. The company is also running a pilot with an unnamed European utility, which Stiff describes as "the largest energy company in Europe, if not the world".

But at the moment, Flow is concentrating on making inroads domestically. And as well as saving money for households, Stiff is keen to emphasise the benefits the company is bringing to the UK. The boilers are manufactured in Scotland, the company's contact and operations HQ is in Ipswich, and it is training installers to fit the boilers at a training centre in Runcorn.
He is also insistent that Flow can repair the fractured relationship between customers and energy suppliers by providing genuine value rather than simply buying and reselling gas and electricity. "All an energy company does is buy energy on the market and shift it to customers through wires they don't own. They're billing companies - they add no value," Stiff says. "What we're trying to do is add value [and] ... try to open this to as many people as we can."
To do so the company needs to scale up. It hopes the price of the boiler will drop from its launch price of £3,675 to just over the £2,000 mark during this year - "As we get more volume we expect it to come down to the price of a standard boiler," Stiff says - while loan options are also available.
But with a technology that saves money in the long term and promises to reduce emissions, could many more homes and businesses soon be going with the Flow?

[staverly] 23/2/2015 03:43

Larry - I think you can discount your second reason; the elegant supply/install arrangements appear to make no w/c demands.

If installs begin this April, doesn't appear incongruous to me given the launch date, new technology etc. Perhaps they are still awaiting MCS approval ...

[grandwood] 22/2/2015 22:16

Larry, from your ofgem fit report link...I wonder who they might be talking about here?

" By the end of Year Four, 481 installations were accredited. We know that at least one licensee is looking to encourage the uptake of micro-CHP as part of its business model over the coming year. We expect to be able to report further on this in next year’s report."

[smelleroo] 22/2/2015 20:56

just for Fox ;)

hxxp://www.businessgreen.com/bg/feature/2396147/flow-energy-we-can-be-the-google-of-the-energy-industry

[larry335] 22/2/2015 19:22

Initial targets (launch boiler) are within the Archetypes 10 and 12 and more specifically those with dependents...multi occupancy.

[uppompeii] 22/2/2015 19:18

Almost like they planned it Larry...

[larry335] 22/2/2015 19:13

uppompeii
I believe there are reasons behind the April install...see post 2755 of 2780.
It is also better for cash flow...same reason they started the energy supply tariffs beginning of April...the boiler sale also initiates an energy supply deal...better to start that end of the winter.
I suspect there is a third reason but I can't find definite evidence of that.

[uppompeii] 22/2/2015 19:02

I had to wait 7 weeks for my new system boiler Fox, Rayburn failed in October, install in December, and that is a Vaillant from stock - due to the heating company having no date available till then so I'm not that surprised its April. I'd say it was pretty good going for a new boiler. Why does it matter?

[rafieh] 22/2/2015 18:12

I am holding a lot of these shares and am slightly in red, but confident about longer term. Having said that, I have a feeling the share price will continue drifting downwards, until either we get a solid sales report from the company, or such a low point in share price that every holder on this board starts to curse and swear at the management,( whichever comes first). We are not there yet.

[uppompeii] 22/2/2015 16:48

And most of those will not be suitable for a combi, any more than one bathroom and they are a waste of time unless you plan to have the bath tomorrow..

[grandwood] 22/2/2015 16:44

And of course, for the customers flow are currently targeting, choosing to go the combi route is going to be the most expensive to install since it'll require extensive re-plumbing of their existing heat-only set up.

[uppompeii] 22/2/2015 16:07

grandwood - do you not live in a small flat/house with excellent insulation and only one bathroom?

FoxYou - all the answers to the questions you ask are on this thread.

[fox you] 22/2/2015 15:31

www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&;espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=boiler%20supply%20and%20fit

what a fool.

[peterd55] 22/2/2015 15:28

Grand wood: wow, this must mean that different people have different needs. Who would have thought that?I have a 3 bed detached in Liverpool. I got a new boiler supplied and fitted last year at a cost of £2870. Maybe Tony knows far more than a certain idiot!

[fox you] 22/2/2015 15:23

Is Stiffs statement fundamentally flawed? You decide.

Quote:
Homeowners fitting the Band A boiler are promised savings of up to £80 a month on energy bills, with the technology also attracting feed-in tariff payments for power generation used in their houses and the roughly 10 per cent of electricity exported to the grid. "If you put out a million units that would be a sizeable, dirty power station that you would not need on the grid," Stiff adds.
Of course, the boiler only generates electricity when the heating is on and has no ability to store electricity. But Stiff says households use most power when the heating is on, primarily in the evenings when dinner is in the oven, clothes are being washed, and the TV is on. - End Quote
===============

So "UP TO 80 pounds a months," and "households use most power hwen heating is on."

Well, trust me, in June/july and August, I can ever recall having the "heating" on and that is a simple fact. Even today, no heating as yet as sun is still just about out an home is south facting with glass walls and very hot.


Anyway, all I am trying to do is open your eyes to both sides of the coins.
So why April installations and when in April?
"up to 80 pounds a month," based on every moneth and is it a the new lower eltric rate?
Boiler uses more power than a standard, how much more power does it use?

Having completed more research today, I will watch for a possible 20p join in maybe.

ATB Dyor

Fox You

[grandwood] 22/2/2015 15:13

I've had the heating on continuously from about 7am today; I can hear the washing machine just finishing it's spin cycle as I type this and the dishwasher has already been on once today, and will need to again to clean the lunch and dinner stuff. My hot water has also been on for at least three hours today to keep the hot water tank (in the loft) topped up. And it is chucking it down outside so getting very little heat coming in through my (modestly sized) windows. And guess what, I LIVE IN THE SOUTH OF ENGLAND, where according to some idiots, no one has a hot water tank, the weather is always hot and no one ever needs to use their central heating!