Finsbury Food Share Discussion Threads

[jpjp100] 16/12/2011 07:45

'so are you saying that the current FIF CEO did a good job at Walker Crisps ?
can I ask how you know ?!'

Where did I say that? Walker's Crisps isn't even mentioned in his biography.

[markt] 15/12/2011 13:32

.....well, one could argue that the boards at 3 companies where David Marshall is/was a director have been intent on empire building, Sanctuary, MWB, FIF and that shareholders have sufferred as a result

Sanctuary de-listed....owned by the creditors I think...sunk I recall/think by a big acquisition and fall in trade

MWB.....highly geared and could go bust. High debt to liquid assetts. Looks like shareholder/boardroom fights. Starts paying 27% interest rate for some loan in January apparently !

FIF. from 20M turnover to 200M in less than 10 years. Was growing at OK rate till massive acquisition of Lightbody seems to have stuffed up its share price.
"overpaying for Napier Brown".....one could argue that FIF overpaid for Lightbody. Paid approx. 1:1 for turnover. Way over the normal market rate imo.

At Doctors Direct, David Marshall was non-exec. chairman and Mr Beale was a non-exec. director. D.Marshall was the force behind bringing it to market. Raised around 700k. (producing profit of 100k/year on turnover around 700k). They burnt all the money in around 18 months and sold the remains, nothing left for shareholders. (farce of an idea for a listed company imo....supplying doctors on call out to the well off....no barriers to entry: a website, a desk with a phone and away you go !)

Did the same happen with the D.Marshall led investment in Graduate Appointments ?

...not a good record imo. (and LFI shares are the same price as they were 20 years ago !!) (his son has been getting a nice 75k/year salary at LFI subsidiary though !!)
...even if FIF were to increase to say 60p at some point in X months/years, any 85p share subscribers from Lightbody acquisition time would still be showing a loss.

[aleman] 15/12/2011 11:14

jpjp100 - 5 Dec'11 - 19:00 - 21 of 30

markt, interesting article

from what I can gather, Pieter Totte & David Wright are pretty switched on guys

Generally I like RGD, but I like FIF more


Ask Hill Station and Glisten shareholders what they think of Totte. He nearly detroyed RGD by overpaying for Napier Brown. More interested in empire building than delivering sharheolder value.

[aleman] 15/12/2011 10:37

Wheat and sugar just dropped a bit more. Futures still suggest further downward pressure.

[spaceparallax] 14/12/2011 16:40

when is you short due Markt

[markt] 14/12/2011 16:36

to be clear....I have no concerns about the FIF accounts.

...and the questions I made about Disney licence....only background stuff..(although I don't understand that FIF buys products from M.L. since I thought that FIF had bt. all his production facilities...but only 0.3M of total of 200M)

....not material/significant.

[markt] 14/12/2011 16:01

jp
so are you saying that the current FIF CEO did a good job at Walker Crisps ?
can I ask how you know ?!

----

crisps seems, I would guess, a much simpler production task to direct/manage that a wide variety of cakes, bread etc produced at a variety of production facilities...

in any case, glad it is not me doing it.....with over 2000 staff and 200M of sales it is a big job to direct/manage
----

CEO must be happy in any case from his options.....on paper he has made a massive profit since the options were issued in July....adding to other options previously in place...around 5M now for the CEO. Many at 20.5p. (I can't recall price of previous options).
If get a little lift so that it is a 10p gain then it is 500k profit in a few months.
(I have a view on the large FIF options BTW, but I keep to myself)

[markt] 14/12/2011 15:53

Mr Beale



"Accusations fly as investors round on MWB board
Shareholders in hotel and property company MWB Group heard accusations of market manipulation, poor accounting and a failure to grasp fundamental details of the business at its annual general meeting".


"poor accounting"
I understand that the MWB accounts are produced by City Group PLC where Mr Beale is the CEO. (and chartered accountant, so I assume that he gives the final OK to the accounts even if someone else does most of the work). City Group is the MWB co. secretary and registred office address and pays X k per year to MWB, ref. MWB accounts.

====

If I recall correctly it was LFI (ie. David Marshall) that backed MWB into a shell in the late 90s....but I could be wrong...I could check....
..and David Marshall has sat on the MWB board since.
BTW A connected person to D.M. bought loan notes in MWB, 60k, around 2002, P.Latilla-Campbell. Was director at LFI for around 30 years.

===

LFI has 2 strategic investments that are trading companies. MWB and FIF.
If MWB goes bust due to debt it will leave FIF.
FIF has also been hit due to its debt, hopefully it is now getting past that.
====

Incidentally, Creston pays the directors payment to D.Marshall to City Group....but at MWB I understand that the director's fee ref. D.Marshall is paid ..."to an overseas company". (and not to LFI/City Group which has put up the money to invest in MWB)
Strange, intriguing.......justafiable ?

====

Family trusts are stated as owning 44% of LFI....but a son, L.Marshall (now a director at LFI) is stated as having no beneficial or non-beneficial shares in LFI (except for some options) .
Strange, intriguing ? (he is 'family' .....but appears not to be one of the beneficiaries of the Marshall family trusts invested in LFI !!...strange imo...)

Mr Beale is the CEO of the company that produces the LFI accounts.
===

MWB will not provide a breakdown of the HQ costs which are very high in opinion of some shareholders. (Telegraph says 10M)
Mr Beale will not provide a breakdown of the operating costs of LFI or WSE...which could be argued to be unreasonably high.
...it is all....'secret' !

[markt] 14/12/2011 15:36

"I don't really understand why you dwell so heavily on events of years ago when the current leadership has only been around since Q4 08 "

- much of the board is the same as it was then
...hence the skill or not of the board in the past is relevant I think to considering the skill of the board now.
It is also important I think to consider the long term history of any company when considering its shares.....its long term history of making money, long term record of generating profits from cash raised from shareholders, it is important. Long term profit %.

====

...Mr Beale ...I don't respect his performance regards standards etc. You can see many of my specific points on the LFI board. The accounts intentionally are as opaque as possible in my view ...and in my opinion more opaque that the regulations allow.
(eg. connected party. Company Act 2006. LFI accounts do not comply. (son)...perhaps there is some get out...that don't yet have to apply the Act or not applicable to small investing co.)

====

[spaceparallax] 13/12/2011 14:26

It's been gratifying to witness the tremendous stability of our share price in recent weeks - I suppose it's one benefit of operating on such a ludicrous PER.

[jpjp100] 11/12/2011 18:24

I am curious why you think anyone that posts here is likely to have the answers to the questions you ask? Sure, some of them can be answered by the application of a modicum of common sense and/or limited knowledge of the food industry generally. But some of the specific ones aren't likely to be answerable by information in the public domain.

You could ask Disney itself about the licences, that would be the obvious source of the info.

In my earlier posts, as well as saying that the licence could be held by different companies for supply to different geographies, I also said there are likely different licences for different FIF related Disney branded products (Celebration cakes on one licence for instance and small cakes on another). I also said that Disney may choose to have multiple licensees. In all this I am merely guessing, I don't know the detail of the Disney 'cake' licences.

The Lightbody prospectus is superseded by Lightbody becoming non exec Chairman from CEO I expect. It is unusual for non exec Directors to be full time for a company. Personally (and you have already read what prompted me to buy shares in FIF), I am happier with the current CEO than the previous one.

You can read the Lightbody Ventures website as well as anyone else can: 'We manufacture and distribute Lightbody Caramel Shortcake, celebration cakes and other sweet treats.' I don't know (nor care tbh) if that is in its own factory or using third party manufacturers.

The shareprice today surely reflects anything that might have been bad about past takeovers / practices. Consequently(?), as a multiple of sales etc. the share price is low. Also, as a result of the past, FIF has negative shareholder funds on the balance sheet.

I don't really understand why you dwell so heavily on events of years ago when the current leadership has only been around since Q4 08 (technically Sep 09 but Duffy was around the place for a year before becoming CEO of course - in which time one might have expected him to do some due diligence before accepting the CEO role).

Looking at the profile of the current FIF Directors, the one to approach about anything remotely associated with governance would surely be Edward Beale 'He is a member of the QCA's Accounting Standards and Corporate Governance Committees' according to his profile and should, therefore, be expected to know the rules and best practices of such situations very well.

[aleman] 09/12/2011 15:57

Wheat chart on a longer time frame (Remember how they said half the world would starve in 2008.) And did they cut a loaf of bread by 30p after increasing it 20p?



Futures markets have wheat going even lower!

[jpjp100] 08/12/2011 19:31

Do you think there is just one single Disney licence? If so, you are mistaken.

Disney will be careful in selecting its licensees in terms of geography and product range (e.g biscuits, celebration cakes, small cakes, crisps, snacks, lollipops, ice creams, chocolate bars etc. etc.)

You might recall from the Annual results back in September that FIF announced it had added Disney small cakes to its portfolio (to go with the licence for celebration cakes it has too).

Whether that is an exclusive licence or not was not mentioned and whether it supersedes any of licences mentioned on the Lightbody Ventures site or not isn't clear.

However, we can take some comfort from the 'Sales value is up 16% year on year for the total brand.' in relation to Disney in the FIF results.

markt, if you think there is a conflict of interest of any signifiance due to any of the Directors serving as Directors of other companies, surely you should address those concerns to the appropriate channels?

[markt] 08/12/2011 17:14

Is M.Lightbody back producing in bakery sector ?
...FIF bought 300k worth of goods from a company of his....

(I'm confused since I thought that FIF had bt. all his bakery interests and that M.L. was joing FIF team....)


------

And Disney license is mentioned on a website of private company of M.Lightbody.....but Disney license is also mentioned on the FIF website.
Not clear to me if FIF have the Disney license or M.L. has it or they share it....

[boffster] 07/12/2011 22:23

SP... I wish it was possible to 'like' posts on here!!

Over in Wales at the moment, maybe I should don my deer stalker and head over to Memory Lane, see if there's any mischief afoot!

[spaceparallax] 07/12/2011 16:31

why dont you post this dross on your own sad thread?

[markt] 07/12/2011 16:23

moved to other thread.....due to objections !

[jpjp100] 06/12/2011 21:09

I suspect markt you are referring to note 30 in the last annual statement?

It seems fairly clearly explained to me. There are numerous related party transactions, many with the 'founder' and this is not unusual in cases where a company has grown in the way FIF has.

[markt] 06/12/2011 17:46

moved to other thread.....due to objections !

[jpjp100] 05/12/2011 19:00

markt, interesting article

from what I can gather, Pieter Totte & David Wright are pretty switched on guys

Generally I like RGD, but I like FIF more

[markt] 05/12/2011 15:43

JP
"by pricing at or below cost, just to get the business rather than have factories sat idle / closed"


just been reading some info about a co. that operates in the same sector...




and article talks about them hoping to "move" to profitable operability !! (Haydens)...

[aleman] 05/12/2011 13:59

Must be a big line of stock on offer. There's been several buys going though around mid-price over a few days, now.

[jpjp100] 03/12/2011 10:14

indeed its not only FIF doing it... but thankfully FIF is one of the ones that sees the requirement to continue to invest: in product, in licences, in equipment, in people to be able to continue to compete

[markt] 02/12/2011 18:58

from RGD
"The newly-assembled management team at Hayden's Bakeries is achieving a
turn-around of this business, with overall sales up 20% in the half year and
plans for expansion into additional premises and modernisation of the plant well under way. "

I don't know if their product range competes or not with FIF

"...modernisation of the plant "
not only FIF doing it...
one assumes they get their sugar at a good price since Europe's largest distributor that is not a refiner.

====
Interesting BTW this old RNS
"March 2007 that Mr Paul Monk, Joint
Deputy Chairman, purchased 194,000 shares in the market at a price of 105p per
share."

big chunk of cash...almost 200k !

...so in 2007 some of the dirs. really believed, or appear to, that the shares were worth 105p....after seeing results after that date the market clearly does not seem to agree !