Finsbury Food Share Discussion Threads

[jpjp100] 11/11/2011 08:40

is resolution 7.1. specifically to do with options though? Or could it be that the pre-approval makes it easier for FIF to act quickly to make an acquisition funded by equity for insance?

[aleman] 11/11/2011 02:15

Boffster - page 37 - 5,898,155 share options outstanding at 2nd July. Looks like totals including directors, execs and staff. As I said this seems generous enough but not unduly so, even if loads were granted at the bottom of a recession so they are in the money already. I expect staff to get some shares. There is a line on the contentious issue of the further 6.47m new shares underneath that table.

Resolution 7(i) is to allot £466,401 nominal. That's 46.6m x 1p shares. I don't think I've never known a company have so many shares preapproved for issue. And most other compmanies would have 10% rather than 20% for 8 and 9 (to which I'd still usually vote no).
!

[boffster] 10/11/2011 22:00

Quite right Markt. If you can exercise an option immediately, it isn't an incentive, its a gift!!

As I say I think it would be wrong if LFI gave Marshall the decision on which way to vote their shares. As he's on the company payroll his decision making would likely be biased towards keeping his fellow directors sweet.

The resolution to allot new shares under the incentive plan is a special resolution that requires 75% of all votes cast to pass.

[markt] 10/11/2011 19:07

Aleman
Imo the board already has control of the company from my memory....Lightbody % + LFI % .....may not give 50% but don't need 51% imo since many PIs will not vote in any voting....a % between 40 and 50% is enought to give practical control...and I am sure that that already exists....

(Marshall controls certain companies ...for years/decades....by having between 40% and 50%)

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"dilution of about 10% to be expected around 30p (which I expect to be achieved in short notice), I think another 6.5m at 20.5p "

....making over 20%....is it really that high ??!!....I thought it was around 15%...but that still seems ridiculously high to me...

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Looks like the new options were issued after the year end....perhaps one should vote NO just out of principal....for the new options intentionally being done AFTER the year end....to stop shareholders being able to vote on it !

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I haven't got that many shares....but I'm gonna vote....no to everything, since I think the options % of total is too high...and that the remun. committ. has made no attempt at all to inform shareholders as to why such a high % of options was awarded...and why big chunk of options are exercisable only weeks after they were issued....whereas normally the minimum time would be say 2 years in the future

[boffster] 10/11/2011 18:36

Aleman, not sure where you're getting the figure of 6m for other share options. Looking at the accounts p38&39 I see 652,848 for previous directors and 1,502,500 for current directors.

Also not sure where you're getting the 46m figure from. Anyway, I will probably vote similarly. Whats the chances of getting LFI to vote our way? They should vote in the interests of their investors and not to keep Marshall on the gravy train

[aleman] 10/11/2011 17:23

Right, Boffster. I've had a better look through the accounts and feel they are reasoanable. Options seem quite generous and pay is getting a bit ahead of the employee average but not enough to worry me unduly. The trouble is the new package of options granted on July 12th which are not shown in these accounts. Given there are already 6m options already out there, with dilution of about 10% to be expected around 30p (which I expect to be achieved in short notice), I think another 6.5m at 20.5p is an obscenely generous benefit and is stategically very important because it effectively gives majority control of the company to the board who already control 29%. (I have had problems at other companies where this has happened.)

Because of this I would normally vote against the board members forming the remuneration committee. Conveniently, neither the CHairman, Ian Farnsworth, nor the only other member, Edward Beale, are up for re-election. This leaves me with the only option being to vote against the only non-executive up for re-election, Paul Monk, who should be watching out for shareholders' interests.

I have stated that dilutions and sharebacks have been problematic for me in the past and FIF's are potentially bigger than most so I've also voted against the option to issue up to 46.6m shares, to issue up to 10.7m for cash, and to buyback up to 10.7m.

That means I've voted no to 3, 7,8,and 9. I still do not expect to go but haven't quite ruled it out completely yet.

[boffster] 10/11/2011 15:25

Booked my train ticket, I'll be at the AGM.

[markt] 09/11/2011 19:41

the chart sure is looking very strong

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(I agree with Aleman and think all PIs should be active and use their votes....
even if the total is not enough to control the decision....I think people/dirs. take note if they get tens or hundreds of PIs all voting in one direction....and I guess dirs. at any company are pleased/justified if they see everyone voting YES ...and vice versa !)

[aleman] 09/11/2011 12:00

I need to reread the FIF report and motions but this year, with other companies, I have typically voted against over-conplex over-generous remuneration reports, remuneration committee members and any other non-executives that don't seem to be keeping the board in line, particularly where there are too many non-execs, overpaid themselves, and collect lots of other directorships (although acceptable if they have large stakes in lots o other companies!). I've voted in favour of remuneration reports in about 1/3rd of cases this year so there are still clearly companies that haven't jumped on the gravy train (yet) and I tend to vote in favour of the executive directors who I generally think are doing well (or I wouldn't be invested) even if some are overpaid. I also tend to vote against most share issues/dilution that bypass existing holders and share buybacks. I have lost money due to them in the past enough times that I just say no now.

Each company is different, though, and sometimes it can take me some time to make my mind up as finding the relevant information can be difficult to find.

[spaceparallax] 09/11/2011 11:46

presumably the unincentivised rights issue

[boffster] 09/11/2011 10:24

Aleman, can I ask which items you are intending to vote no to?

[aleman] 09/11/2011 00:23

Probably not but am considering it. London is a pain and I've a little one to make arrangements for. I will be delivering some no votes, though.

[boffster] 08/11/2011 22:36

Aleman, are you going to the AGM? Myself and a highly respected colleague of mine are thinking about it

[aleman] 08/11/2011 20:19

I'm drooling now - I love it when you get strong fundamentals and a cracking chart:

[aleman] 07/11/2011 11:37

Missed this one. Greencore are the 3rd recent bid for a supermarket supplier I know of. I've been through their accounts when they bid for Northern Foods. I figured they couldn't afford to up their bid when Bhoparan entered the fray and I was right. Finsbury shares looked much cheaper than either Greencore or Northern and still do. I also looked at Uniq, where things were messier, and didn't even think they were cheap. It shows there is an appetite out there for companies supplying the major supermarkets despite their pricing power. A bidder could afford a big premium for FIF at the current very depressed price.



Greencore had "no comment" to make last night on reports that the Irish company is in talks with a US private equity firm about a takeover of the company.

Greencore has been approached by US private equity firm Clayton, Dubilier Rice (CD R), a firm with extensive interests in the food sector, according to reports

[spaceparallax] 07/11/2011 09:42

Topvest, I agree with your analysis - we continue to suffer the hangover from our days of significantly greater indebtedness. The Mkt has yet to recognise the significant progress made on that matter - meanwhile, the business continues to strengthen despite the tough times, which in turn continues to improve our gearing.

[topvest] 05/11/2011 18:06

As far as I'm concerned long term shareholder value hasn't been lost. The share price is too low, but that's not a long term issue just "Mr Market" getting it wrong! The original transaction to set up Finsbury was at a similar price to now. It then went to a £1 or so and raised further cash. Many similar companies with leverage would have done a highly dilutive share issue, but FIF have escaped this by some astute management over the last 2/3 years. Things are looking much more positive imo and, all being well, we are only about 12m away from a proper re-rating and reinstatement of the dividend.

[markt] 05/11/2011 17:39

Ramper, me ?

I don't think so !

I own some FIF and you chaps are always complaining about me highlighting some of the risks in FIF shares !..so doesn't look like I ramp it !....the positive factors, you chaps all ramp that every week !

...out of the 5 shares in my post of picks for 2011....I only own 2 at this moment, 1 being FIF....(if I had some cash I may buy some of the others but can't own everything )...and I often highlight -ve factors about FIF since rest of you seem blind or blinkered about the risks....

If I was going to ramp....I'd ramp ILX...which I have a sizeable chunk of....and I didn't even mention it .....(but, if have to replace BDI in choice of 5, then I'd put in ILX)....(5 picks for 2011, only fun, dont take it so seriously)
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I partly posted since someone asked if I actually owned any FIF shares.....
as if that was a requirement to be permitted to post an opinion on this message board. (number of FIF posters only want +ve posts about FIF, because they have large positions.....and get stressed up if anyone posts anything -ve )

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Message boards are full of people posting about shares they like....eg. FIF board. part of it is ramping or highlighting good points about a share....have to be aware of it, but it ain't gonna stop...

[markt] 02/11/2011 15:20

little reminder of markt tips for 2011...includes FIF !! despite my debt worries !

BDI, FIF, CRE, NBI and KFX

BDI sold after stop loss, say 15% tracking

KFX reporting 1st Q results tomorrow....
....been on a down slope....perhaps could change

FIF and NBI doing OK, (but FIF price a bit like a yo-yo in 2011) CRE, hoped to jump after upcoming results, cheap P/E if achieve expected profit and they have said they would, I think

Overall hoping to exceed a combined average of over 20% for the year....although Euro zone crisis may ruin that hope)

[markt] 02/11/2011 15:06

"The major positive here is that the directors have, to date, maintained long-term shareholder value."

huhh ??!!....not for those that subscribed for the millions of shares at 85p , now 25p, less than 1/3rd of the price...no long term value for them so far...

a -ve post perhaps....but it is the truth !

[spaceparallax] 02/11/2011 12:48

OoH Boff, you're so stern, albeit right.

FIF chart looking due to bounce off a developing trend support line.

[topvest] 01/11/2011 18:06

Aleman - their cost of capital is 10%, so I'd go with the 10 times operating cash flow - continuing capex less the debt. Agree with you though that these are seriously undervalued, due to the debt and lack of income. I'm already quite exposed, so will probably pass on buying much more. May get a few more if a good opportunity presents itself. The major positive here is that the directors have, to date, maintained long-term shareholder value. The share price might be 25p, but they and us know it's worth close to a £1. Value will come to those with patience, even if it's still a year or more off.

[boffster] 01/11/2011 17:47

Going very off topic now. Please lets stick to talking about LFI!! :o))

[spaceparallax] 01/11/2011 14:10

It IS a great product.